Why I Know There Are No Gods


Formally, I classify myself as a gnostic atheist, meaning I know there are no gods. Most atheists (from what I read online) appear to be agnostic atheists, people who are without gods but who do not claim to know there are no gods. Some people who fit this description simply call themselves agnostic. But, on formal forums, like reddit’s atheism subreddit, all who are without gods are atheists and agnostic or gnostic is a statement of whether they know or have doubt. Similarly, they allow for agnostic theists, those who believe in god(s) but have some doubt.

Regarding knowledge:

In no other area of discussion do we expect certainty or proof when we speak of knowledge. Nearly all knowledge, outside of mathematics, is empirical knowledge, gained by empirical evidence.

Empirical evidence, also known as sensory experience, is the knowledge received by means of the senses, particularly by observation and experimentation. The term comes from the Greek word for experience, ἐμπειρία (empeiría).

After Immanuel Kant, in philosophy, it is common to call the knowledge gained a posteriori knowledge (in contrast to a priori knowledge).

This is the type of knowledge we use when we say that we know that if we drop a ball on the surface of the earth, it will fall. I don’t hear a whole lot of people telling me, you can’t claim to know that because you can’t prove it. But, indeed we cannot. We know the ball will fall because it has done so the last gazillion times we performed the experiment.

For some reason, most people expect that if you say that you know there are no gods, that this one case of knowledge requires certainty. We do not require certainty from any other type of knowledge. Why do we demand certainty to state knowledge only when we are discussing knowledge of the existence or non-existence of gods?

Why this one?

Nowhere in the definition of knowledge does it ever specify that we must have 100% certainty.

So, when I say I know there are no gods, I mean it the same way that I know the ball will drop or that I know the planet on which we live will continue to rotate through the night causing the appearance of a sunrise in the morning, even if it is blocked by clouds. Night will become day as the earth rotates. I know it. You know it. We cannot prove it to 100% certainty. We only know that it has always done so before.

Classifying gods:

To begin our discussion, we have to classify gods. This way we can address different claims of gods individually.

Deist God:

I’ll call the first type deist, because that’s the most common form of belief in this type of god. Though, this god is also often discussed in philosophy as the prime mover. The Deist god put things in motion and left or became inactive or died or whatever. Regardless, the god who put things in motion and left is not here now. So, even those who believe in this sort of generic prime mover still essentially believe we live in a gods-free universe now. From a functional standpoint, they don’t expect any more god-related activity or behavior than I do as a gnostic atheist.

As such, this type of god hypothesis makes no testable predictions. A universe with such a god is indistinguishable from a universe with no such god. So, in addition to the point made above, from a scientific standpoint, we can call this a failed hypothesis, meaning that it fails to meet the criteria to be a scientific hypothesis.

Personal Gods:

Then there are personal gods. These gods are reputed to take action beyond just the creation of the universe. These are gods who demand or expect worship. They take action based on the saccharine adoration of their sycophantic followers.

If we can show statistically, that there is no effect from the saccharine adoration, worship of, and self-enslavement to such a deity, then we can show that the hypothesis that gods do respond to prayer is false and that this particular type of god does not exist.

That test has indeed been performed. God, if s/he exists does not, in fact, respond to prayer.


Intelligent Designer God:

One common hypothesis about god is that s/he (or they in the case of multiple gods) designed things. The Abrahamic God in particular, which is the most commonly discussed deity in my area of the world, but far from the only one, is even said to have created us in His image. (I do not know why anyone would assume that a god who birthed a universe is male rather than female. That makes little sense to me. But, so be it.)

If we can show that design did not take place, then we can show that there is no intelligent designer.

So, we can look for flaws in the “design” of our universe or ourselves. Looking for flaws in ourselves is the easiest thing to do because we actually know rather a lot about our flaws. And, from the human-centric standpoint that is very common among members of our species, we are the pinnacle of god’s creation (for an obviously self-centered and self-aggrandizing reason). So, we should be the least flawed creatures in the known universe.

Far from it.

For some reason, most male mammals, including humans, have nipples. These serve no reproductive function in human males. Though, some of us derive sexual pleasure from having them touched. I’m not sure how many religions would consider this a worthwhile feature.

Back pain. 80% of humans will experience back pain at some point in their lives. I know I do. Our back pain is evidence of our recent evolution from knuckle-walking apes. Their spines are straight and cause them no pain. But, we weren’t designed as bipeds. Rather we were kluged into it through evolution from quadrupeds. So, unlike bipedal birds, we have a lot of structural problems from our curved and recurved spine.

As an evolutionary kluge, it is functional enough. But, it is certainly bad design.

Knee pain. All the same applies to knee pain. Though, I don’t know the statistics on how many of us experience knee pain.

Hernias. The males of our species are particularly prone to hernias. These are caused by the fact that our testes start out up in our abdomens, where they are in the fish from which we evolved. But, for mammalian purposes, we need them to be in external sacks in order to regulate the temperature for sperm production, which must be slightly cooler than the rest of our body’s temperature.

So, if all goes well, at about 9 months old, our testes drop from our abdomen to our scrota leaving a cavity that makes us vulnerable to hernias.

Of course, good design would mandate that the testes just start out in the scrota where they belong in mammals. But, since all mammals are in the taxa sarcopterygii, the family of lobe-finned fish, our testes must drop and our risk of hernia is increased.

Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve

Though I know of no health problems caused by this bit of obvious bad design, it is a rather amusing piece of evidence that there was no designer. It’s a silly piece of human anatomy. Watch this video to see just how extremely silly this down and back nerve gets in a giraffe!

Empirical Arguments:

The laws of physics work. Every single time. Our most tried and proven theories such as General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics do not have exceptions in them. There are limits to the ranges at which they work, just as there are with Newton’s (so-called) Laws of Motion. But, within the realms for which they are defined, they always work.

We don’t need exceptions in our laws of physics for when some god or other intervenes.

If you drop a ball while standing on the surface of the earth, it will fall to the ground. Every single time. This is just what it means to be a scientific theory. We actually don’t have any proof that this is so. It just keeps on working every time we perform the experiment. This is how science works. It is all empirical.

With the exception of mathematics, which does in fact have proofs, everything we know about our world is empirical.

If you believe in god(s), you will never know whether the ball will fall to the ground when you drop it. Seriously. You don’t. If you believe there are god(s), you must believe that one of them might catch the ball and hold it suspended in mid-air, or cause it to fall up, or cause it to go sideways and hit you in the eye. You have no clue what will happen next in a godinfested universe.

Thank God there are no gods! /snark

Judgement Day God:

Many people believe in what, for lack of a better term, I’ll call Judgement Day God (JDG).

They worry that JDG will judge them for not believing correctly and thus will damn them to hell for eternity. There are many specific sets of rules about how to be judged worthy of heaven from the various religions, most notably the Abrahamic religion (deliberately singular), centered around a JDG.

All of these sects, subsects, and religions say that you must follow their specific instructions or burn forever. And, the instructions of each contradict the instructions of the others. So, it’s impossible to get it right.


Or, is it?

Here’s the real question regarding a JDG, what is the likelihood that the creator of the universe is a psychopathic sadist?

This is the crux of the matter, pun intended.

In order for any god to create a hell in the first place, or even to allow one to be created, god must have at least some pretty serious sadistic tendencies. But, to actually send people there for eternity, not just until they repent, and to do so for the sole crime of non-belief or of following a wrong set of rules, is just plain psychopathic and sadistic with overtones of narcissism and cruelty beyond human imagining, or more literally, right out of the worst of human imaginings.

Now, I admit that such a god might not be possible to actively disprove. A universe in which the vast majority of the volume of space would be lethal in about 30 seconds? A JDG might find this amusing. A planet where 99% or more of all species that ever live go extinct? A JDG might find this entertaining, like watching gladiators fight lions. A basic body plan that causes 80% of people to suffer from back pain at some point in their lives? Hilarious, right?

So, perhaps all that’s left for this type of god is an argument from personal incredulity.

Is there even the remotest possibility that the creator of the universe deliberately created us to torture the vast majority of us for eternity?

Or, perhaps I can also add to the incredulity the question of whether such a god is worthy of worship? Is this a bad plot line for the ultimate horror movie? Do you really see a way to avoid such a god?

If there were such a psychopathic sadist as creator for the universe, would there be One True Set of Rules of the One True Religion will escape Hell? A sick fuck of a deity who would set things up this way would probably take the most pleasure in torturing precisely the people who worshiped correctly.

Remember, this is the same god who, according to the tradition of all of the Abrahamic sects, created the tree of knowledge with the best fruit in the garden, said eat all the other fruits but not this best fruit of all that will give you what humans crave most, knowledge.

Then the sick fuck sent a talking snake to convince them to violate the rule and eat the fruit. So, of course they did!

And, this psychopath jumped out from behind a bush and yelled “Gotcha!!”

I’m not personally capable of believing in a god who taunts people into doing bad things then yells gotcha. There’s nothing anyone could do to appease such a god.

More importantly, if someone managed to find some hard scientific evidence that such a god exists, I would cease to be an atheist. But, I would not become a worshiper of such a god. I would become a misotheist instead.

Such a god is worthy of contempt, scorn, and hatred, not sycophantic worship.

Again, thank God there are no gods! /snarkety snark snark


None of the above types of gods exist in our universe today.

TL;DR: Deist God is already assumed not to exist or be powerless today, leaving us in a gods-free universe now. Personal gods are shown not to exist by the lack of effectiveness of prayer. Intelligent Designer gods are shown not to exist by obvious bad design. The concept of a psychopathic Judgement Day God who would set things up as necessary for their to be a hell and a judgement day is beyond ludicrous. There is no action you could take to prevent a sadistic JDG from torturing you, were there such a creature. Be glad there’s no evidence of this creature.

There are no gods.

P.S. Show me a single shred of hard evidence and I’ll reconsider. I’m not going to deny hard scientific evidence. But, if anyone does find any hard evidence, I might become a misotheist.

8 Responses to Why I Know There Are No Gods

  1. Accremonious says:

    Amen, Brother!

  2. ECA says:

    The war of the Angels was BEFORE god created MANkind..
    In the war, the devil was Tied to a stone forever to Stay there..

    Then we claim the DEVIL did this, the devil did that..

    WE call it Gods law…But really they are laws for people to GET ALONG..to QUIT being an ass.

    Then we call others, MANS LAWS..which is even more stupid, as they are ALL based on GODS LAW. at least to Things that SAY are parts of the bible..

    My idea of GOD, tends to be a comedian…He created this place and has been Laughing at us Since..

    THOSE that understand the bible, understand the OLD/NEW testament, as well as WHERE/WHAT Christians came from..You are JEWISH..

    Many of our Human Physical problems come from Current advancements in the World..
    VERY FEW animals were raised to LIVE on ROCK..
    It destroys feet, Ankles, Knees, HIPS, and back..

    You will understand this, many WONT..
    I think there are TIMES in history where MEN(I dont see it in women as there is little history of it)..FORGET everything he has LEARNED and goes APE SHIT STUPID..
    We have Lost knowledge Many times from the great libraries(proven that they were a MESS and not much was there) to Persecuting ANYONE that didnt AGREE with them…the IDEAS that Im stronger, so I am RIGHT…I can YELL louder so I AM RIGHT..any of many justifications to PROVE 1 person is RIGHT..

    HOW in HELL could 1 person control so many people to create a World of death and despair..WOULD a GOD DO THIS??

    EVEN NOW, religious people have come up with an Explanation, that ..is JUST STUPID..’it was in the bible’.,..
    reading the Old bibles and comparing, is so much Fun, but the REALISM is that BEFORE the printing Press, NO COMMON MAN could READ the bible..it was WHAT I SAY IS TRUTH, so SHUT UP, and do as I SAY..
    HOW is that GODS LAW and how he would do things COMPARED to today..

    Its interesting, that MANY of the old tribal traditions of men and women WERE PRETTY GOOD…they were understood to SHARE things..Work with each other..
    (when we came to the Americas, it was the SAME ideals)(SHARE) then some religious people and WHITE MEN changed a WHOLE nation to some ODDBALL corrupt idea of GOD AND WAR..
    I cant say that the American Indians were perfect, they had wars for Land, NOT for Materials..as WHITE MEN did..

    WE ran around the world, taking religion with us, and Sailors that NEVER acted as religion SAYS they should..

    I would love to see religion to get serious, and start KICKING people out because they ARE NOT ACTING like Christians..
    I cant tell the Good from the Evil(??) All i see is Justification for a persons actions..and being FORGIVEN for being an IDIOT..

    I dont believe in the god of others…IF there is one, he is FOR THE WORLD, not for Mankind(specifically)..and as LONG as we are IDIOTS he isnt going to help. GOD has mo control over mankind, even if he WANTS to be stupid on purpose..Love Hippocracy..

    This is like Manufacturing..WE DO IT THE CHEAPEST, EASIEST way possible and GOD save the animals..we WONT create a better way to get rid of pollution and all the MESS we create. BURY it and let the next buy deal with it..
    as far as IM concerned, that isnt in ANY religion..

    I see Doctors as a Stagnant group..Ever since we discovered we can MAKE drugs to cover systems,. its the IDEA that the BODY HEALS ITSELF, IF you can give it enough time..
    WE dont know HOW our bodies REALLY work..its a Group of Organisms that are working together to Help/protect/SURVIVE…and we dont even know how to care for these little creatures.. as soon as MAN(not women) took over medicine(based on the idea that MEN KNOW BETTER in the bible) they TOOK away what Women had been doing for millennia..

    We are at a time in human history where we have destroyed MOST of nature..at least on 1/2 of the world…the PARTs we can FARM.. We have expanded to the point this planet can Help help or protect or FEED US..
    We use Chemicals to replicate the SAME things that USED to be abundant in the wild..
    we use chemicals Because we dont want to use the REAL thing, because of COST..its cheaper to make it with chemicals then make it REAL..(the Christian way??)
    its funny that we SHIP out more corn and wheat to other countries then we EAT in this country..

    Iv noticed something funny about FOOD..Grains are causing problems..Even a Dentist in the 1920-30’s figured something out..Why do teeth in developed nations Fail, MORE often then those of NON-ADVANCED areas.. it came down to 1 product..GRAINS..(look up Food fortification and grains) Grains have a USE in developed nations for 1 GOOD reason..they can be STORED and last longer then other foods..also, LATE 1800’s we did something even MORE of a problem… Grains lasted Thru a winter..extended how long you could EAT…
    We started giving it to the poor, and Taking the rest of the food to the Richer folks..

    OUR diets are supposed to be MORE meat, veggies and fruits..and Grains as an Added side dish.. and NOW we are playing with the plants to the point, SOMEONE thinks thay can make GRAINS the perfect food..(so who gets all the meat??)
    (is this the Christian way??)

    Between the corps, politicians, and many others…WHERE are the Christians and THEIR values??
    Did you know there are over 40 different groups that are considered Christian/catholic.. AND SOME dont think you need to have your FORE SKIN REMOVED..
    The BIBLE is interesting as it has a few GREAT things in it..
    Basic rules to live by..
    A great philosophy..
    Predictions of what CAN happen..if we let things go to far..

    There are over 20 books in the bible, NOT 13..
    The old testament is from the jewish religion…FROM THE TRIBAL ERA..how they were to get along..and stories of the PAST(brought forward) to show Cause and affect..

    There are Books describing the times and events of Jesus’s era and HOW things happened and were Happening..Concordance.. and 1 is over 36 volumes and created/written by a Jewish person…
    Do Believers get to see any of this??

    The BIBLE is a Cross edited Piece of Garbage at this time..Word change, MEANING changes, Instances CHANGE..
    Iv learned abit about UNDERSTANDING history and events of the TIME..KNOWING what was happening AROUND a situation, can explain MORE about what is happening then anything else..

    I see Jesus as TRYING to fix his OWN religion after it was corrupted and manipulated while the Romans and OTHERS were STOMPING around the area..The Jewish leaders were trying to Placate and SUCK UP to the other groups..

    RELIGION is supposed to bring people together, and to let people SHARE knowledge of what is happening AROUND the areas…WHO needs help and who is being stupid.. Its a tribal system to GET tribes to WORK TOGETHER..not much else, until someone created a GOD/FIGUREHEAD and anything WEIRD was said to be ‘GOD DID IT’..
    I dont blame a GOD..I blame/worship/…/.. myself to Human nature and how many idiots I can Fit in the white house..

  3. So, I’m not sure if I’m getting all of the points you’re making. But, the important ones to this particular conversation seem to be:

    1. Christianity is the One True Religion(tm).

    2. Bible translations are missing the real points.

    3. Jesus is all about love.

    And, if those points are a subset of your points, here are some questions I have:

    1. What hard scientific evidence do you have for anything supernatural?

    2. What hard scientific evidence do you have that Jesus is that thing?

    And, I have one significant point about religion. Examine the word sectarian (as opposed to secular). Sectarianism divides people into sects, Us and Them. There is no Us and Them. There is only us, with a lower case u. We’re all the same.

    We’re all just homo sapiens. There is only one extant race of humans.

    Religion is not intended to increase oneness and love. Religion divides. That is its purpose, now and forever. That’s why it’s called sectarian.

    But for this conversation, the question is what evidence you have that anything supernatural exists and that Jesus is that thing.

    • ECA says:

      mY main POINT TENDS TO BE, Where is excommunication??
      Where is the Church, pointing out the EVIL DOERS..??
      Im not a person that Believes in Forgiveness AFTER THE FACT..

      Where are all these people who SAY they are christian, and NOT ACT as christian..

      FOR all the folks Yelling that we are a Christian STATE…its a MINORITY..a LOUD minority..

      Republicans, Conservative religious..??? can you say…WHERE THE F??? did these people come from, that are trying to CHANGE this government?? Gives good meaning to Fascism..

      • It would be nice if religion became a force for good. I would maintain that it has never been so at any time in history, at least not by net effect. It was Catholics who ruled Europe until one king wanted a divorce and split from the church. And, when they ruled, they ruled with torture devices.

        Excommunication is a purely Catholic concept as far as I’m aware.

        For the evangelical megachurches of today, I think they are your loud minority. But, they’re no longer a minority. Did you know that almost 60% of Christians in the U.S. today believe that God created humans in their present form less than 10,000 years ago?

        70.6% of U.S. identifies as Christian.

        42% of U.S. believe humans specially created by God in present form

        A bit of simple math ((42 / 70.6) * 100.0) = 59.5%

        Even if we assume some small number of those are Jews or Muslims or others, we’re still left with way more than half of today’s Christians having some very strange beliefs, including that our species was created more recently than documented evidence of agriculture.

        I don’t know if it’s right to say then that it’s a vocal minority anymore. I think this is the new mainstream Christianity. Yesterday’s moderate Christians are dying or their children are leaving religion. Those who are staying with religion are increasingly becoming the fucking nutjobs of yesterday, people who would have been too embarrassed to voice an opinion that the earth is less than 10,000 years old or (worse) is flat.

        I know neither you nor I (nor anyone else even remotely sane) wants to believe that our country is this fucking brain dead. But, we are.

        Anyway, this was supposed to be a thread about why I personally know there are no gods. I have not taken your arguments as any evidence that there are.

        What did you think of my point about intelligent design versus the errors in the design of our bodies? Certainly, Christianity (and the whole Abrahamic religion) posit a god who created us in his own image.

        Do you think God suffers from back pain?

      • ECA says:

        God created humans in their present form less than 10,000 years ago?

        70.6% of U.S. identifies as Christian.

        42% of U.S. believe humans specially created by God in present form

        A bit of simple math ((42 / 70.6) * 100.0) = 59.5%…………….

        70% CLAIM to be christian..?? LOL..
        42% think Mankind hasnt changed in 10000+ years??

        Jews have been around for about 4000 years(as they say)
        Christians only 2000 YEARS…AND Very Loosely for the first 200, and CLAIM all of the Jewish history and fantasies..TO BE CHRISTIAN..(weird) thay have very little History of THEIR OWN..

  4. Accremonious says:

    If you define God as all the principles of Chemistry, Physics, and Mathematics rolled into on integrated force, then I could accept this redefining, but I will not accept any rumors, hearsay, or fictional accounts of supernatural beings!
    There is also the mathematical possibility that a complete inverted or opposite Universe exists completely oblivious to each other! This in no way implies that there is a personality/God/or creator!
    One of the postulations is that the Universe(s) have always been in existence! There is a principle of Conservation of Energy/Mass and that the combined values there of cannot be destroyed, created, or misplace!
    Religion is an exhibition of man’s defective DNA, requiring superstition, boogeymen, and ignoring evidence to the contrary!
    Scientific logic requires disciplined thinking and methods! End of the case!

    • I understand what you mean about defining God as science/math. I’ve heard that before from you and from others, I think. What I don’t understand is the reason to call that a god. I’d be happier with an “all that groks is God” philosophy.

      There’s another possibility that leaves our own universe as having always been here, despite the fact that it began 13.8 billion years ago. Time began 13.8 billion years ago along with our universe. Perhaps we need to redefine always.

      The best we can tell from our current knowledge of physics is that the whole concept of “before the big bang” may not be valid. Before and after may truly have not existed without our universe.

      That’s just one possibility. I’m not really arguing for that. Just stating it as a possibility.

      I also think that the “nothing” philosophers like to use as the nothing before the universe may truly not exist. We’ve never seen such a nothing. The best nothing we know of is intergalactic space, which definitely contains a few atoms per whatever volume.

      So, we might be able to imagine a nothing that is the fabric of spacetime itself. But a nothing that is not even that may truly exist only in our minds as a philosophical construct. We have no evidence that such a nothing even can exist.

      Perhaps “before the big bang” or “in eternity outside of time” is a tiny piece of the fabric of spacetime. If we have even that much, there is no need of any god.

      Quantum stuff would pop into existence in that tiny piece of spacetime and it would expand. And, here we are. It really might be as simple as that.

      I can’t really say, of course. No one can right now.

      But, if we just point a finger at some mythical god without asking where the fuck that god came from, we do ourselves the disservice of shutting down our brains.

      That is key!

      God turns off our brains, quite literally. Once you subscribe to a philosophy or religion that God did it, there is no further question. We can’t examine that hypothesis. We can’t learn any more about the subject. And, what we have asserted without evidence has taught us absolutely nothing.

      God shuts down brains.

      Other universes are a cool concept. I know of only one hypothesis that rose to the level of a true testable scientific hypothesis for how that could be. It made predictions about our universe.

      When those predictions proved false, the hypothesis died, as good but false hypotheses do. And, the theoretical physicist who came up with the hypothesis had specifically requested that the tests be performed by experimental physicists and was among the first to admit his hypothesis had proven false.

      And, that is how it’s done.

      So, we await other multiverse hypotheses that can be turned into scientific hypotheses and can be tested. And, then we will await the results.

      Of course, there may be many such hypotheses of which I’m unaware.

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