IUCN Misses One Critically Endangered Species … Us

Some of my formerly radical views seem to be becoming more mainstream. Click this first link to read the main topic of this post.

ALERT: Critically Endangered Species: Homo sapiens

I’ve said this about humanity for a long time. In various places, I’ve compared the graph of human population to the graph of the population of introduced reindeer on St. Matthew’s Island and pointed to the way in which they ate out their resource base on their small island and died out. We’re doing the same on a slightly bigger island.

Note how the above graphs look very similar … if you add six zeros to the end of the reindeer population numbers. The big differences are the even greater steepness of the human population growth … and the fact that we haven’t crashed … yet.

I’ve also made a few other posts on the subject of overpopulation, such as these.

https://wordpress.com/post/misanthropicscott.wordpress.com/23

https://misanthropicscott.wordpress.com/2009/01/16/agriculture-good-or-bad/

https://misanthropicscott.wordpress.com/2010/02/07/lets-talk-about-population/

How long will we wait to discuss the growing problem of our growing population? The clock is ticking.

World Centric Clock: http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

U.S. Centric Clock: http://www.census.gov/popclock/

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28 Responses to IUCN Misses One Critically Endangered Species … Us

  1. ECA says:

    yes, we have talked about this many times, in a few forums, and with personal mails…
    HOW much land to grow on..
    How much land to FEED animals, OURS..
    How much land to Feed NATURAL animals..
    How many trees to get rid of the pollution caused, by humans..so we dont have to sit in our OWN PUKE..
    The SIZE of the USA, and population density…is VERY low compared to MANY other nations, even those around our size..CHINA has 20 times the people..

    We could go on and on about much of this, but MUCH comes down to the USA splitting society, into sections…and EACH takes care of itself..as is much of China..

    AND the end of the idea “there is no death, we can fix anything” attitude…that the USA spreads around the world…and making money at it.

    • Just for the record, as of the time I grabbed the numbers to the nearest thousand from the world clock at the bottom of my original post, China had roughly 3.24 times as many people as the U.S. They also have slightly more land, ~2.6%

      https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_area

      So, their population density is well over 3 times ours, but far from 20 times. There are a lot of rural areas of China, including a lot of farmland.

      But, what we’re talking about here is a global problem. The U.S. is the worst offender in the world and does influence many countries via our film industry and the internet.

      In the end though, if we are going to solve this problem (not likely) it will require a global solution.

      We must spread education and birth control around the world. Women in particular must get educated around the world and be brought into the work force. This, coupled with the availability of birth control has been proven time and again to dramatically reduce birth rates, often from numbers like six births per thousand women per year to numbers like two births per thousand.

      And, it’s not about where the food comes from. Any sustained growth rate of human population is, by its nature, geometric and unsustainable.

      Someone calculated that at current low global rate of population increase (yes, it’s lower per thousand women than it has been), in 5,000 years, the mass of humans would equal the mass of the planet. Clearly, since we are made of earth stuff, we cannot outmass the earth. We cannot even truly approach the mass of the earth as much of the earth’s material is inorganic.

      So, we know that population growth cannot continue forever.

      What we don’t know is whether we will grow a collective pair, take responsibility for our actions and our own survival, and stop the growth ourselves or whether (as seems much more likely to me) the laws of nature will stop us with a lot more pain and suffering than if we do it ourselves.

      And, a lot more species that I find more beautiful and worthy than our own will die if we wait for nature to stop our growth than if we do so ourselves.

  2. J R McGillawee says:

    Homo stupidus as a thinking, planning, cognisant species will get what it deserves! Our leaders and educators are miserable failures on this file!

    • Yes. We are indeed more deserving of extinction than any other species that has come before us. 99.9% or more of all species that ever lived are extinct.

      None deserved it more than we do.

  3. ECA says:

    wow, last time I look China had 3-4 billion people..Population controls can work..
    There are a few ways to solve this..
    Population controls, WAR, large scale destruction…

    But FEEDING all these people WILL destroy the planet.
    Nature took along time to create a balance here. and we need to ADAPT TO IT…not try to create our own.
    IF mankind keeps this up, the next area to be destroyed for FARMING, will be Africa.
    For those that have not seen it, or understand what im saying…Look around at NAture in a farming area..FARMERS dont like nature. Farming is not good for nature. If you want a close up of the problem Look to South America and the destruction of the forests..South america WANTS their own farms..NOT depending on Other sources for grains and corn..
    Trees are a wonderful thing, if you understnad what they can do…Low level winds SLOW DOWN…as they have to pass threw and around…
    In all of nature, there are controls..the problem is we do not admit to one for humans. We are the Locust, we are the RATS, we are the Plague on this planet.

    For some Odd reason..Euro mankind and the North Americans, tend to be afraid of death..in any form. And Corp mentality in the USA, is to SHIP out food to any source, and make POOR food in the USA.. do you really thing they Over process food in other countries?? nope. In the USA they would rather feed you Oil/Sugar/SALT to the point we end up killing ourselves. We are one of the FEW countries they charges HUGE amounts for medical..and we have Many people who cant afford to even see a Doctor(until recently)…the USA is a Slavery nation..in one way or another. you are a Slave to trying to survive.

    Excuse me…I ramble abit. but there are so many points in this subject, hitting just 1 concern, isnt easy.

    Lets say it this way..
    MORE people, means we need MORE jobs…the Corps are slave owners and dont like PAYING more then they need. They ship the jobs around the world, back and forth..(look up China, trying to move into Africa)..what happens to those nations is Horrendous. Japan Quit and created many regulations, ROC, did the same..to much pollution. they couldnt even eat the fish off the coast lines.. But the jobs will never return to the USA.. so what do we do with all the people that need JOBS in the USA?? We ship out about 3 million military..we imprison another portion.. Then we put about 20% on social security and disability..
    Go look up what happened to Employment after WWI and WWII..when the men came back..NO WAR, NO JOBS..

    • I don’t think China ever had more than they do today. Even with one child per family, as the prior generation of young girls comes of age and become women, the total population still increases for a while. It takes time for it to level off and begin to decline.

      Also note that the one child policy was officially phased out in 2015.

      The world takes a deep breath and lets out a huge sigh in anticipation of the earth being metaphorically crushed under the weight of humans.

      (google break)

      Looks like Chinese population is forecast to peak in 2030.

      http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=201

      Other than that, I agree on your points of farming in general and on corporate wages. But, as for where the food comes to feed all of the people, it’s going to matter more from the standpoint of climate change and transportation of the food than anything else.

      Warfare is, of course, extremely destructive to the environment on which we depend for our survival as a species. So, warfare will definitely stop. The only question is whether it stops because humans are extinct or it stops because we’ve figured out how to live together. I am not hopeful about the latter.

  4. ECA says:

    cARLIN, ON SAVING THE PLANET..

      • The problem with Carlin’s view on this is that the species aren’t “just disappearing” and it’s not “regardless of our behavior”. It’s because of our behavior. We have increased the rate of extinction by a factor of 1,000.

        Sure, the planet will be fine.

        But, the biosphere definitely will not be fine. We are destroying the biosphere on which we depend for our lives. And, I do give a shit in the biosphere (not the planet) and not just for a clean place for me to live.

        The people are not the only ones fucked by our own actions. There are numerous species I find far more beautiful than our own that we are driving to extinction.

        My point: Carlin is flat dead wrong on this one.

  5. ECA says:

    http://gizmodo.com/researchers-just-solved-one-of-the-biggest-problems-for-1776808813

    its supposed to be natural..
    But its more for EXPORT…and more money.

    I would HOPE that a nation would be able to FEED itself..if it cant, on the land provided, you SHOULD MOVE to a better location.
    the NEXT biggest areas to use for Food production..
    A fair part of South america..
    Africa

    The requirements for AUTOMATED farming are simple…relatively FLAT Terrain..
    You would not believe what People will do, after they find a FLAT area to farm..
    South Idaho, (you should read the history) Gov. sent farmers here. and found TONS of Flat area, and Basalt..about 10 small and 1 BIG, Volcano surround this area..so the Gov. sent TONS AND TONS of earth/DIRT here..(need some ROCK, we got it)..

    • This won’t matter if we continue to reserve overpopulation as a taboo topic. We need to find a way to stop population growth. Usually the best way is to educate girls and get them into the workforce (when they’re women).

      China’s one-child policy is not one I support.

      But, we must do something. At current rate of population growth, in just 5,000 years, the mass of humans will be greater than the mass of the planet.

      This is an obvious physical impossibility.

      We can’t get anywhere near that. So, we have to address population. It doesn’t matter how we grow our food if we continue to grow our population.

      In some circles people ask whether we’re “feeding more hungry people” or “feeding hungry people more”.

      It’s a subtle and extremely important distinction. People are made of food. All else being equal, no population control, no education, no birth control, more food == more people. And, the people remain hungry, always at the bare minimum of food to make all those people.

      What we need to do in order to feed hungry people more is to reduce birth rate. It’s not optional.

  6. ECA says:

    Agreed..
    but the problem I see as well…is we Keep destroying this planet so that we can Have more people..
    There are a few ways that Naturally Lower populations..
    Less food.
    Pestilence from over populating an area and NOT being able to Clean it..
    Poisoning an area, to a point that people Die..
    Eliminating Natural, Rodent/pest controls..
    OVER protection..rules and regulations to Keep us from being idiots.. \
    Over decimation of nature…destroying Natural processes that grow food, protect habitats, and not caring about the out come.

    Now if you want Mankind to kill himself off..
    A few nations have already started..
    Where Women/men rate in at 1/50 and Lower..
    Where religion persecutes women to the point of extinction..
    Wars without Understanding..

    If you want to do something On Purpose..
    you would have to get abit of Knowledge and understanding to EVERYONE…not just women.
    Then comes the problem of JOBS..How to create enough.. and HOW do we go Backwards and learn to live off the land..
    Then the less subtle things..War, and fighting, and not listening to anyone and Just killing people off..(dont think hard) The Corps dont want to PAY for Slackers..and would LOVE to help in this..
    Corp/gov mentality is…If you are self sufficient, you are giving nothing to the gov. so the gov wont help you…You arnt working(WORKING for a corp) so the Corp dont care and dont want you..and wishes you would DIE, so they dont have to Pay for you..

    In any form of Protecting ourself from Ourselves.. there is the Fast ways(natural or augmented) and the Slow ways(natural and augmented) and Soon, there will be few options..

    It was/is estimated, back in the 1970’s that the world need to be cut back by 2/3..China has lowered it population..but the South asia and middle east…Arnt..
    And for the REALISTS in those nations…there is a way out before realization Occurs..GET EDUCATED AND GET OUT, goto the EU, Brit or North america..

    Then comes the Covert/conspiracy..
    A nation wishes to LOWER its population and place it in CONTROL…declare that radicals are trying to take over a country and LET the other nations BOMB YOU..
    Most things get destroyed..you get jobs.
    Farms and out laying areas are bombed, farmers and others goto the cities to protect themselves..more workers..
    The land is disrupted and WOW, we can find more minerals..
    Corps like it as the ground is Fallow, and ready to build on..
    Most of the animals ran off, or DIED..so Corps can take over the land for CORP farming, and not worry about elephants Eating the corn..

    I wont get any deeper into this..
    Lets say its going to be HARD, to get things away from the corps..

  7. ECA says:

    so, you think we can get rid of 1/2+ population, in Less then 100 years??

    • As you know from prior conversations, no I am not optimistic about us reducing our numbers voluntarily.

      I do believe that our current numbers are unsustainable. That which is unsustainable is not going to continue.

      If we do not voluntarily reduce our numbers by attrition, they will be reduced for us by the cold hard laws of nature.

  8. ECA says:

    https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12472675_10208908529615655_6848429718279313191_n.jpg?oh=c132fbb43936673edcc661c266d24d26&oe=57DB62D5

    Old picture from North bend wash…some time in the 50’d(?)
    When was the last time you saw trees this large Outside of national parks?

    They USED to use PUNT guns to get Ducks(go look up that gun) and kill dozens at a time.. when and why did they stop??

    I could probably look up more pictures, and ask more questions,


    http://austinitetips.com/corner-shoppe-mall-austin/

    But we have gotten to the point, that Any idea of living off the land with wild animals, is very limited.

    Any animal larger then a medium sized dog, tends to be a target. And Some smart people are opening Wild game perserves and hunting locations.

    You cant go out and kill 1000+ buffalo per day, and expect it to last. Im not even thinking about gathering wild fruits and vegetables..
    At this time we grow TONS of food that ends up being exported, and its not a SMALL amount. we export so much that its SUBSIDIZED…and some countries get SO MUCH, they ship it out again..
    And if you want Conspiracy mode…Lets think about supplying a small nation with enough food, that farmers cant make a living, And the Population BOOMS, and local farmers Soon dont have farms or ROOM to grow anything…That nation becomes dependent.. People in the outer areas Flood the the major cities(as farmers arnt/cant grow) looking for Food, Jobs(as the farmers arnt hiring), and Many of those people FORGET how to Forage and gather wild foods.. Large Slums gather near Metro area..
    Sound familiar??

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Piles+of+antlers&rlz=1C1AFAB_enUS463US465&espv=2&biw=843&bih=937&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjV5u3N__fMAhUPzmMKHfcBAREQsAQIGw#tbm=isch&q=slums+near+major+cities

    I could Flood the page with pictures..

    Even had a major movie that had this…District 9(?)..which had to, Kinda, HIDE what was being said…

  9. I’m less concerned about shipping food than you, not because I don’t think it’s an issue. But, I just think we have bigger issues to worry about. If anything, the issue with shipping food is the carbon footprint for doing so.

    The days of the 3,000+ mile salad are numbered. We can’t continue to ship food halfway around the world because climate change will limit how much we can grow … in total … locally … where locally is defined as “on earth”.

    We’re on one tiny island now. Globalization means that we will all starve together. The rich will go last, but they too will go.

    We rely on our global economy to distribute goods and services, including food. When it collapses because we simply can’t grow enough food due to climate change reducing the food supply while overpopulation continues unabated, all of this will come crumbling down.

    If we want to maintain a civilization, we do need to limit population. And we do need to limit climate change.

    High population is increasing our need for food, since people are made of food, at the same time that climate change is already reducing global food production.

    More people; less food.

    That physically cannot continue.

    • ECA says:

      “More people; less food.

      That physically cannot continue.”

      It can survive.
      As the rich corps, HOLD the balls, and only feed those that enslave themselves..let the rest suffer..
      They fed them, they Forced over populations..

      but as many have noted, that PLANTS like the change..
      Over population has killed off Most species, Except those RATS we tend to not want to eat..
      The Last of the food stocks will be BUGS and rats..

      I think we talked about humans being an adaptable species..and the Limited Types of food, that are Sold in stores.
      Not the Best, the MOST abundant.
      We have discussed the Quality of food, and what is exported, isnt as adulterated as what is done to USA food stocks.
      Unless you grow it, and Farm it, ranch it..you dont know whats in it..
      We see the problems, and there are a few things we could do…but we dont do them..
      Enclosed farming could raise crops in controlled areas, and in larger amounts..Fewer bugs and pests.(it costs to much)
      We could swap materials to easier ones to develope and use..(but there is no control over the materials, anyone can grow them)

      Feeding countries where 1 million deaths per year, has no impact..
      30,000 jobs lost to Automation for Foxconn.. And more expected in the next couple years.
      how many people can work on farms?
      How many jobs, are Gone?
      no jobs, no money..
      no money, …..

      Lots of things happen, when there is no money..good and bad..

      • “The Last of the food stocks will be BUGS and rats..”

        And jellyfish.

        “Unless you grow it, and Farm it, ranch it..you dont know whats in it..”

        If they give it a pleasant sounding name … like Soylent Green ™ … then it must be good. Oh damn! You can read the ingredients? We’ll print them smaller in the next batch.

        “Feeding countries where 1 million deaths per year, has no impact..”

        I don’t understand that logic. It has a huge effect. But, since we refuse to send birth control along with the food, that effect is to raise more starving people. More people die. But still, the birthrate outpaces the death rate and we get more starving people.

        This is feeding more hungry people. We need to feed hungry people more. And we need to stop breeding like rabbits.

      • ECA says:

        “Feeding countries where 1 million deaths per year, has no impact..”

        Some USA backed countries..the leaders have decimated their own people, JUST so the USA will stick around..asked the last 2-3 Presidents in the Philippines..

        GENERALLY, if Food supplies drop in an area, Over population isnt a problem. but 3-4 countries KEEP sending food..
        And its destroying countries..Even locations in Africa are becoming over populated..but there is LESS work..China is Scouting, but do the Original people get jobs?? probably not.
        Its just another location to pollute..

        Most of these problems tend to be inter-related.
        Over population causes many problems…esp. with FEW jobs, or ways to get Food, a place to sleep, and so forth..

      • Jared Diamond has called Rwanda’s genocide the first Malthusian conflict.

        http://www.ditext.com/diamond/10.html

        Population increases. Population always increases. Here and there, now and then, for short periods, such as after a plague outbreak, population declined. But, otherwise, global human population increases.

        What causes population to decrease or at least birth rate to decrease locally is education, getting women into the workforce, and providing sex ed and birth control. Under those conditions, birth rates and even local population can decline.

        But, a quick look at the global population graph shows that even the worst plagues in history were very minor blips on the radar screen of global population. Look closely for that blip labeled black death. Even with the label, it’s easy to miss.

  10. ECA says:

    Even when mankind Gathered in larger numbers to kill off larger animals..to protect itself from Nature..
    Sanitation, and Keeping things cleaned up..caused many more problems..
    And that isnt LONG ago..
    Getting Doctors to CLEAN hands and Tools…
    For all the TIME mankind has been on this planet, we have killed ourselves off at a VERY good pace..
    We have Spurted Tech ahead in short bursts..But sanitation is a Late Bloomer..

    • And still, population always bounced back and more after any catastrophic epidemic or war. The losses have always been only temporary.

      And, most of these problems also destroyed land, especially warfare, meaning that even the temporary reduction in humans didn’t help other species.

      BTW, this year was another record for earliest Earth Overshoot Day. We reached it a few days ago on August 8th this year.

      • ECA says:

        you already know, as I do, the 1 answer…
        The only way this is going to be solved..

        Even if we Leveled ALL of africa and turned it into farming…It wont be enough.(they already started)

      • So true! And, just FYI, the leveling of Africa is mostly being funded by China.

      • ECA says:

        Iv said that about China for the last 10 years…and you seem to be one of the few that believes me..
        weARNT looking into better manufacturing methods or even BEtter products..

        Its CHEAP(they think) and makes money(not in USA, Japan, ROC, or most of the EU.)
        All of those countries, Learned from the problems and mistakes, and regulated things..for those corps to CLEAN UP..they all moved out.

        Its an interesting fact, that we could HOUSE, everyone in the world, in 1 state..REALLY, everyone could have a home in the State of Texas.
        (Iv debated this with others)
        Can you SEE the amounts of pollution and destruction of the lands, with Asphalt, Concrete, and everything else.. I wont even get into CONTROLLING the populaces..
        Then leaving the REST of the world for farming..(then we Bitch at Brazil of Killing rain forest lands..)

      • Yes. We agree about China, especially the carving up and devastating of Africa.

        But, you said:

        “REALLY, everyone could have a home in the State of Texas.”

        That’s largely irrelevant. The problem would be that the home is not all there is. People must be fed.

        Last I heard, there are around 8.7 million people in New York City, 1.7 million of them just on the small island of Manhattan.

        But, the food to feed them the water supply and the energy comes from far and wide.

        It is more efficient for people to live stacked on top of each other as Manhattanites do. New York City as a whole, even including the less densely populated boroughs, still has one third of the carbon footprint per capita of the United States, even though that includes New York.

        But, no matter how you squish people together in living space, you still need to feed them. And, we do not have the resources on the planet to sustainably feed the people already on the planet, let alone a growing population.

        Don’t believe me?

        Then, explain Earth Overshoot Day, and explain why it is getting earlier every year.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Overshoot_Day

        Yes, we have resource allocation problems. But, we’re also losing top soil at an alarming rate. We’re both overfishing and acidifying the ocean such that around 2047, we will have no fish left, whichever way we kill them all. And, a billion people or more depend on ocean fish for the bulk of the protein in their diets.

  11. ECA says:

    Oh!!! yes..
    I understand this.
    The one thing I mentioned about Every person could be Placed in Texas, is on an individual housing idea..If you REALLY want to crowd people in, and have TALL buildings of people with little land and play spaces/parks..YEP, we could ALLOT..AND still we would have to keep building MORE AND MORE, as the population expanded…

    The restrictions to population come from many points..
    Arable land..(there REALLY isnt that much)
    Fertilizing Land enough to DO SOMETHING..
    We could terrace, Many mountains and locations to OVER USE water..Which has been done in a few countries BECAUSE of limited room..we could raise the amount of farm land greatly…

    But have you ever seen what happens When they KNOCK down a forest, and try to regrow??
    WE DONT get the idea, that without Forests and hills and mountains…this planet would turn into a WIND BLOWN DUST BALL..
    http://persquaremile.com/2011/01/18/if-the-worlds-population-lived-in-one-city/

    This one SLIDE DOWN..
    http://persquaremile.com/2012/08/08/if-the-worlds-population-lived-like/

    See..there is a concern..
    Its the idea that Olive oil is GREAT and everyone wants some..but there are ONLY so much to make and sell..so the BAD guys FAKE it/Mix it/and charge tons for nothing..
    And you can say this for ANY product of food.
    Then is the BIG ONE..Water..fresh water is getting REAL BAD..
    MOST of the problem tends to be using FRESH water for manufacturing processes..

    I wont go any further..this is ALL LONG and complicated and for those READING this..LEARN..LOOK WATCH..
    remember the 1 rule of corp business…IF ITS CHEAP we do it, IF its CHEAP, we charge you for it. IF you can do it for yourself, WE DONT WANT YOU TO..

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