Powerful god protects atheist??!!?

No. That can’t be it. Perhaps the tantrik death spell is just a bunch of horseshit. Yeah. That must be it.

The Great Tantra Challenge

I have to give credit to the tantrik.  At least he was honestly trying to use only spells (for most of the time) without attempting simple physical means like using the knife to cut out the atheist’s heart.

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18 Responses to Powerful god protects atheist??!!?

  1. Higghawker says:

    People have forever wanted special powers. Needing to produce miracles, wanting to heal others………………..but since the last apostle of the Bible died, there has not been one miracle. Miracles/Healing were ONLY to show that one was from God. The apostles and one’s that an apostle laid his hands upon were able to perform miracles. This was for the express purpose that one may now listen to this person who was teaching the New Testament. After seeing a miracle/healing, (by the way these were undisputable miracles, healing of leprosy, making the blind to see) not your false teachers of today so-called healings, the Gospel was taught. Once the New Testament was in full written form, there was no more need for miracles/healings. This is said to have been completed around 40 years after Christ’s death.

    When the last apostle died, there was no way for these gifts to be passed on, thus having the full written form of the New Testament, no more need for miracles.

    One only need to read, learn, and obey the New Testament to obtain salvation. Miracles are no longer needed today.

  2. Misanthropic Scott says:

    Higghawker,

    After seeing a miracle/healing, (by the way these were undisputable miracles, healing of leprosy, making the blind to see) not your false teachers of today so-called healings, the Gospel was taught.

    I’m sorry to say, but you have no idea how that sounds to a person of science. Were these “undisputable miracles” independently recorded in any other historical writing? I would think that if these events were commonplace during the time of the New Testament that they would have been reported by the historians and journalists of the time.

    However, not only were these not recorded in anything other than the allegorical writings of the New Testament, but the historians of the time do not even mention Jesus or a controversial crucifixion. Face it. The New Testament is a complete and utter work of fiction, as is the Old Testament.

    There is not one single writing from or about Jesus during his supposed lifetime.

  3. Misanthropic Scott says:

    Higghawker,

    One other point you may be truly missing. Such miracles as you describe are far outside the normal day to day experience of most of us. This is not a claim along the lines of “yesterday, I saw in a restaurant in New York City.” Such claims would be relatively commonplace and are well within normal believability.

    Your claims of miracles are on the order of the extraordinary. Things like that just don’t happen. So, if you make such a claim, you must be prepared to back it up with extraordinary evidence. A single work of fiction describing the events does not qualify. If it did, I could create an entire religion around JRR Tolkein’s Lord of the Rings or the Harry Potter series.

    You need extraordinary evidence to support these claims of yours.

  4. Higghawker says:

    There are many historians who recorded accounts of scripture. Josephus a Jewish historian. The Sanhedrin(sp?) has recordings from the Old Testament.

    As for the New Testament, There are the Pauline records, which are all of the apostle Paul’s writings. Early on I’m not sure about the date, Useabus(sp?) wrote much about the books of the New Testament.

    I will get some exact quotes from these writings. There are accounts of miracles, healings.

    These miracles served one function. Confirmation of the Word.

  5. Misanthropic Scott says:

    Higghawker,

    Yes. There are accounts of some of the events of scripture. There is, however, no account at all of Jesus or of any controversial crucifixion around the right time. Further, the Sanhedrin meeting at midnight on Passover would be like getting the U.S. Supreme Court to hear an emergency case at midnight on Christmas or New Year’s Eve.

    BTW, I’m surprised you haven’t commented at all on the HWJV post. I was curious to get your take on that one. I was particularly curious how you were going to argue that Jesus was anti-choice given that there is no mention of abortion in the Bible despite the fact that it was practiced for 1,550 years before the supposed time of Christ.

  6. bobbo says:

    (by the way these were undisputable miracles, healing of leprosy, making the blind to see)==those can all be easily faked or misdiagnosed and confirmation of such occurrences would prove nothing.

    Still not to be believed would be the regrowth of a missing limb.

    And you know, why was god so interested in prooving his word back then, and not now?

    Doesn’t make much sense.

  7. Higghawker says:

    Mr. bobbo,

    “And you know, why was god so interested in prooving his word back then, and not now?”

    The New Testament was not written at this point. It is said that it took around 40 years after Jesus death to complete the New Testament writings. The apostles were teaching (confirming) this new doctrine with the help of the Holy Spirit. By these apostles doing miracles/healings, one would listen to them as these were undisputed occurances that could only be explained one was from God. Once the New Testament was CONFIRMED, or completed, miracles have no longer been needed.

  8. Higghawker says:

    One must realize what was happening in this time period to really grasp why these miracles were needed. God has brought us his teachings in many different ways over time. Hebrews 1:1-2 1: God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2: Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

    Ever since Jesus shed His blood and died on the cross, we, as in all people are now under the New Testament. Jew, Gentile, everyone. We are to listen to Jesus, His teachings. This was not so with the Old Law.

    Jesus was hung upon the cross because the people did not agree with His teachings. They were expecting a mighty ruling king as David was. They were disappointed with the humble Jesus and therefore killed him. As with any Will and Testament, the New Testament came into effect after His death.

  9. Misanthropic Scott says:

    Higghawker,

    You have an interesting interpretation of the bible going there. People expecting a mighty ruling king? Where did you come up with that?

    As for the miracles, there is no need to fake them. Just write down a bunch of total fiction. As you point out, the NT was not released for the general audience for 40 years. I had personally heard well over 90. Either way, human memory is highly fallible and modifiable. And, eyewitness testimony is among the worst forms of evidence in existence.

    Certainly now, all of the miracles of the bible are hearsay. Perhaps if there were some corroborative independent writings, perhaps from the historians of the time, then there might be some reason to give credence to at least the possibility that people at the time believed that miracles were going on.

    Without such testimony from any of the historians and without even any independent mention of the existence of Jesus or of any controversial crucifixion, there is not only no reason to believe these alleged miracles, there is no reason to believe that Jesus ever existed. Certainly, there is no reason to believe that people of that time believed there was a miracle worker amongst them. Someone would have noted that.

  10. Misanthropic Scott says:

    bobbo,

    It’s a good point that you make. Why has god evolved over time? One might think that an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-benevolent god would already know everything there is to be known, it says so right here on the label.

    So, given our only experience that we have with people changing over time, it makes sense that new knowledge goes into new thought patterns, new beliefs, new attitudes. In politicians we call this flip-flopping. In the rest of the population, we call it learning.

    But, what should we call it in a god?

    How can god learn and grow and change when he already knew everything right from the start? That makes no sense. So, why is the angry mean vindictive desert war god of the old testament so different from the kinder gentler still occasionally extremely violent but much less frequently god of the new testament? What had god learned between the two?

    IMNSHO, it is not god that changed, since god does not exist, it is the moral zeitgeist of the authors that was changing. Today, perhaps we no longer need even the only sometimes violent Jesus who wanted all who did not accept him as king brought before him and killed. See Luke 19:27.

    Maybe now, instead of getting our morals from a self-contradictory source filled with xenophobia and genocide, maybe now we should get our morals from good and decent reasoning and from fully functional morals processing centers of our brains.

  11. Higghawker says:

    Scott,

    “You have an interesting interpretation of the bible going there. People expecting a mighty ruling king? Where did you come up with that?”

    The Jews had many previous rulers, Saul, etc. and David there most cherished king. There mindset was that Jesus was going to come and build his Kingdom (physical) and be a mighty ruler, their savior.

    Jesus did come and established his church, albeit a spiritual church. The Jews did not like His teachings, they had a pre-concieved idea of what they thought Jesus was going to be, and they didn’t like his humble ways. This ultimately led to his crucifixtion.

    Scott, you can find many historical facts about Jesus written by an atheist of this time period, his name was Flavius Josephus.

  12. Misanthropic Scott says:

    Higghawker,

    The Jews had many previous rulers, Saul, etc. and David there most cherished king. There mindset was that Jesus was going to come and build his Kingdom (physical) and be a mighty ruler, their savior.

    I asked where you got that, not for a restatement of what you had already said.

    On to Josephus. Here’s the wikipedia link.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

    Note that many believe his testimony a forgery. However, even forgetting about the issue that a single writing that is in dispute as to its legitimacy could NEVER be considered proof of anything, please also note that his writing was in AD 93. That’s a long time after the supposed death of an acclaimed miracle worker and famous crucifixion victim to get a first mention.

    I think, if you really are willing to think about this instead of reciting dogma, you will have to at least admit the possibility that Jesus never existed.

    I know a very intelligent practicing Catholic who admitted the possibility without any problem and without it shaking his faith. He describes the bible as one third allegory. Perhaps the Jesus bit is allegorical. If you take a message of peace from the bible by cherry picking the good stuff out, great.

    However, from many of your posts, I do not read peace in your words. I read a holier than thou attitude that only Christians, and probably only Christians of like mind with yourself, are truly saved. Further, I repeatedly hear denigration of Jews in your posts, which is particularly hypocritical given that Y’Shua was Jewish.

    I also hear you stating that we are all subject to Jesus’ rule. If you choose to subjugate yourself to a god, that is your choice. I am not a slave to any god. Do not impose your delusion on others. It borders on violence. It is certainly fear mongering to suggest that the vast majority of humans on the planet today will burn in hell for eternity. And, make no mistake about it, you actually do espouse such a view, even if you veil it slightly.

    When you’re done reading that one book, you might try some others for variety. I’d suggest The Blind Watchmaker. Or, if you can’t bring yourself to read Dawkins from a time when he was less adamant in his views, try reading Full House by Stephen Jay Gould. Or, how about A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking? Any of these has the potential to begin open your mind to real knowledge of the way the world works.

    Oh, I forgot, god gave us brains and then forbid their use. My mistake. Genesis 3.

    BTW, why did god give us brains if we’re not allowed to use them? What a silly waste! Oh well, what can you expect from a god that would create 100,000,000,000 galaxies and 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets just to put humans on one tiny insignificant little rock in the middle of nowhere? Your god is highly wasteful.

  13. Jason says:

    Any intelligent god would never use revealed miracles to get people to believe in him. A miracle is only a miracle to the person who actually saw it happen, to anyone else it is a story. To anyone else it has an equal chance of being believed or not no matter if it’s true or a lie. Any reasonably intelligent being can see this and adjust their tactics accordingly.

    Besides, was faith not important for the apostles? If you show them miracles that prove you’re divine, then they have no faith. You don’t have faith in things you KNOW are true, faith is defined as believing in things you have no evidence for. So why did god not feel faith was important for people in the early years then he changed his mind later on? Doesn’t the whole concept of omniscience necessarily preclude the desire to change ones mind?

  14. Jason,

    That doesn’t make much sense for the atheist crowd. An intelligent god would simply tell people the rules. Why be obtuse? Why leave people guessing? Why set up dozens of sets of contradictory rules?

    This is a recipe for disaster. Your god, by your argument, has deliberately configured the world for warfare. Why?

  15. Jason says:

    I think we’re not connecting here, I’m an atheist. What I’m saying is 1. god, if he existed, is too smart to rely on miracles for evidence of his existence and 2. any evidence of god, even miracles, contradict the principle of faith.

  16. Jason,

    Sorry. I did miss your point. I think though that for the theist crowd, miracles cut whichever way they want them to today. Once there were miracles, that proves god exists. Now there are no miracles, that also proves the existence of god because the time of miracles is over. I don’t get it personally, obviously.

    For me, I see no difference between god and fire breathing dragons. When evidence, real hard evidence, even a tiny shred, exists for either, I will doubt. Until then, I don’t give any more credence to the god hypothesis than the fire breathing dragon hypothesis.

    Notably, both have much literature about them. So, why one over the other?

  17. sakthisagaram says:

    HAHAHAHA FOOLS ALL THIS ATHEIST CANNOT EVEN TALK. IF THERE IS NO GOD ON THEM.. A DEAD BODY WILL BE THERE TO TAKE IT TO CREMATION GROUND.. ATHEIST YOU CANNOT EVEN SAY WHAT ARE ALL THE THINGS IN YOUR OWN HOUSE … THEN FORGET ABOUT PREACHING AND LECTURING ABOUT GOD HAHAHAHAH WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FOOLS.. ATHEISTS COME TO YOUR SENSES!

  18. Well. That certainly makes the point. Clearly in the video, the atheist remained alive. And, much like in the video, sakthisagaram has begun an irrational rant. BTW, sakthisagaram, unless you’re on an Apple 2+ or similarly antique computer, you might try taking your keyboard out of caps lock. It might make you appear more sane, though, probably not with a comment like that one.

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