One People Divided by Religion

The Hebrew people and the Muslim people are both Semitic groups. The similarities in culture can be seen easily by looking at the written languages and listening to the sounds of each. Clearly the Semitic people are all one group. Further, both the Muslims and the Jews claim descent from a single man, though from different women. Ibu Ibrahim and ben Avraham mean exactly the same thing, son of Abraham.

The problem started with Abraham’s wife Sarah. Being, so she thought, unable to conceive a child for Abraham, she made what was probably considered a noble suggestion at the time. She told Abraham that he should father a child with her handmaiden Hagar. No account I’ve ever read seemed to consider Hagar’s opinion of this, which may have been “what an honor” or may have been “yuck, you smell and your dick looks funny.” We’ll never know.

Anyway, this was done. Ishmael was born. Then Sarah finally gets pregnant after all. Here is where the real trouble begins. Had she truly been noble, Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar would have led an alternate and loving lifestyle with their two sons, Ishmael, and Isaac. However, she wanted the wonderful birthright of Abraham for her child, not for Ishmael, and threw them out. I will not call her a bitch for this for fear of insulting female dogs. Abraham was a total putz for not standing up and refusing to throw out a loyal servant and his own son. Later he would prove himself a bigger putz in regard to his other son, but that’s for another topic, perhaps one that discusses the wonderful family values imparted on humanity by the bible. I have no idea if any of the pseudo-historical account from the bible actually has any basis in real history.

So now, the Muslims claim their descent from Abraham’s first son Ishmael and want their birthright, which is apparently a combination of a tiny piece of real estate that is the only plot of land in the Middle East that does NOT have any oil plus the distinction of being the first people to be murdered, beaten up, or blown up whenever anyone around is having any difficulties. The latter was well noted by the character Tevye in Fiddler on the Roof when he said, “God, I know we are your chosen people. But, just once, couldn’t you choose someone else?”

Are there any people on the planet for whom it makes more sense to lay down their swords and say, “My brother!! Why have we fought so long and so bitterly?”

What keeps these people at each others throats? Differing flavors of the same divisive and violent religion.

The Judeo-Christian-Islamic religion, deliberately singular, has caused a tremendous amount of bloodshed on the planet. The net effect of this religion has been hugely deleterious on humanity, as evidenced by the huge number of deleted humans.

Advertisements

9 Responses to One People Divided by Religion

  1. Higghawker says:

    Well……………….I am going to be brief. The chosen people you refer to, the Jews, were the nation chose by God to be accountable to the Ten Commandments. God knew very well that they would not be obedient, thus the need for a Savior, Jesus Christ. Jesus shed his blood so that those who are obedient to the New Testament may have forgiveness of sins. (To save time, read the first few chapters of Acts to get the establishment of the church and what it takes to be saved. -Acts 2:38- The ones who were obedient to the Old Law will go to heaven at Jesus Christ’s return. -I Thes. 4-
    If you are willing, I would love to correspond with you on the subject of the Bible as I seem to always get a comment from you on Dvorak’s board.
    I truly would appreciate talking with you. Sincerely, Mark Taylor Higghawker

  2. rickace says:

    “Are there any people on the planet for whom it makes more sense to lay down their swords and say, “My brother!! Why have we fought so long and so bitterly?””

    Yes. Me, for one. I’ve never spilled anyone’s blood over a difference of religion.

  3. Misanthropic Scott says:

    Mark (Higghawker),

    Let’s keep the discussion online. I’m curious whether this will be a good thread for attracting more people and getting their views on your comments as well.

    How exactly does the slaughter of an innocent absolve anyone of anything? I never could quite get that concept from the bible. Whether it be a lamb or the myth of the son of god, who probably never existed, how does an innocent victim not make the guilty more guilty? It seems to me that sacrifice just adds more senseless killing to the mix.

    As for being saved, from what? All I want to be saved from is wasted food. I want the meat that is currently me to get back in the food chain when I die. That’s as close to immortality as I can imagine getting. If you claim to know how to save me from burning in Hell for eternity, first, you must explain how Hell could possibly exist in a universe with an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent god. It’s a huge contradiction.

    rickace,

    The fact that you have not spilled blood means that you can not ‘lay down your sword’. You have never picked one up, So, while it certainly makes sense for you not to pick up your sword, you cannot be said to lay it down. I was referring to groups that are actively killing each other and are yet, even more closely related than all of us humans are.

    The real fact is that there is no Us and Them, only Us. We happen to all be very closely related and in a small gene pool due to a time 70-80,000 years ago when there were only 3-7,000 people on the whole planet. So, if we are all close cousins, Jews and Muslims are brothers.

  4. Misanthropic Scott says:

    Higghawker,

    I’ve thought a bit more about your post and noticed a few things.

    1) Your refusal to mention the actual topic and discuss the fact that people, not just Jews and Muslims, are killing each other over the proper name by which to call their imaginary friends means that you just might be OK with people killing over religion.
    2) Your statements make it clear that Christianity is in some way better than Judaism or Islam and has never been responsible for any of the following: The Crusades, The Inquisition, The IRA, clinic bombings, and doctor murders.
    3) Your own holier than thou attitude has caused you to come to the site of a known atheist and antitheist and attempt to proselytize. Are you hoping to add one more crusader to your cause? Recruit one more warrior?

    Since you have obviously read many posts on Dvorak about the complete and utter lack of credible evidence for a god creature and have remained unconvinced, I will try another tack.

    Imagine for a moment that the god creature in which you believe, but I obviously do not, really exists. Why does s/he not at least clear up this bone of contention about what name s/he likes to be called and what the rules really are?

    Perhaps, your god is truly a sadistic asshole that enjoys watching people kill each other with such fervor. Or, perhaps, just perhaps, there is no such creature.

    Perhaps if we could put religion behind us, we just might be able to start the healing process and realize that we are all one people. At the very least, getting rid of religion would reduce our reasons for killing each other by one.

  5. Higghawker says:

    Scott,

    The Jews and Muslim conflict is one of total mis-understanding of the Word. Their belief is that Jesus has yet to ever come, so they battle over a piece of land. This mis-understanding of the Scriptures is based on their thinking that when Jesus does come, he will build his church on the Holy ground they both want. Thus the bloodshed.

    Jesus did come, he has already set up his church albeit spiritual (Acts 2) the first 3000 Christians obey the Gospel and are added to the church. It matters not if you are a Jew, Greek, Gentile, etc. everyone has the ability to be added to the church thru obedience to the New Testament (New Law)

    Why does God allow this to happen? Well, he has given us his Word, it is the lack of understanding (study), that properly brings one to obedience. Their are plenty of false religions, there being only one church and one way to be added to, so you can see the lack of obedience.

    I absolutely believe in God, we could argue His existence forever, I have put my faith in His Word. It is an amazing book, not once been proven to contradict. The proofs of Jesus being here on this earth at one time are not only recorded in the Bible, but also in the works of Josephus (historian), as many others.

    The rules are right here for everyone to obey. We (everyone) is under the authority of the New Testament. It is and always has been your choice to obey His Word or not? I am not trying to come across as a Holier than thou fanatic, but my concern as yours, is for your soul. I hope we can talk together, teach each other something, and let it be just that.

    Higghawker

  6. Misanthropic Scott says:

    Higghawker,

    The Jews and Muslim conflict is one of total mis-understanding of the Word. Their belief is that Jesus has yet to ever come

    Wow!! I wasn’t kidding when I referred to your holier than thou attitude. You probably don’t even realize just how off-putting and arrogant this is. See, the old testament states that when the messiah (not Jesus, the messiah) comes there will be peace. Is there peace? No? Then Jesus must not have been the messiah, Q.E.D. Your ability to state matter-of-factly that he was, makes you arrogant in the extreme.

    The old testament, the one on which your own religion is based as well, states that God will rebuild his temple, not Jesus building a church. Like a neutered dog, you just don’t get it. You are failing to even consider the possibility that maybe, of the thousands of religions that have existed on this planet, yours may not be the one true religion.

    This is typical of religion in general and the Zoroastrian-Judeo-Christian-Islamic religion (singular as always in my posts) in particular. This is precisely the source of its divisiveness and violence. Until you understand that, you are just propagating both the cancer of a violent religion and the violent mentality it represents.

    If god has given us his word, as you claim, why has s/he done so in such a nebishy sort of a way? Why not make it clear that (blah) is the one true religion and set of rules? Clearly if s/he had done so, no one would question that. The fact that there are so many flavors of Zoroastrianism today and other religions as well, means that your god likes this level of confusion and violence.

    Your god is, therefore, not worthy of my worship.

    That you continue to believe in a god that likes divisiveness, warfare, pestilence, famine, drought, pandemic, etc., and even worship such a creature makes me question your own evaluative skills.

    Further, that you can believe that the bible has not been proven to contradict itself means to me that you are able to read one part of the bible without even thinking about any other part than the one you are reading. For example, one of the ten commandments, not the first, just one of the lesser commandments, is Thou Shalt Not Kill. But, then god tells Joshua to “leave nothing alive that breathes” in Jericho. Clearly this killing commandment does not apply to everyone at all times.

    Here are just a few sites from people that have looked into the bible more than I have. I got through about the first five books and got thoroughly and completely disgusted. I had been reading it as humor and couldn’t even keep my sense of humor about it anymore.

    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html
    http://ffrf.org/books/lfif/?t=contra
    http://www.atheists.org/christianity/contradictions.html
    http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

    So, how do you think the bible does not contradict itself?

    As for records of Jesus, did you actually read the link I sent you or just assume that since it contradicts the new testament, it must be wrong?

    As for the rules, they may be here, but which set should we go by? The old testament rules? If so, I assume you neither eat pork nor wear a mix of wool and cotton, the latter being punishable by death. Oh wait, that contradicts the don’t kill commandment doesn’t it? Well, that must be OK, because despite the Do Not Kill commandment, the punishment for breaking that or any other commandment appears to be death. Good thing there are no contradictions in the bible. Where exactly were the ten commandments?

    As for talking offline, I think not. You strike me as the type of person I am specifically afraid will hunt me down and kill me precisely because of your religious beliefs.

    BTW, you actually said:

    We (everyone) is under the authority of the New Testament.

    Way to show your religious tolerance. As was stated by Sam Harris, if I remember the author of the quote correctly, the doors to religious tolerance do not open from the inside. I think you should love your neighbor more, read your scriptures more, and come to the obvious conclusion that your scriptures do not provide for truly loving thy neighbor unless his/her beliefs are identical to yours.

  7. Higghawker says:

    Lets work on one subject, say the Messiah. The Messiah is Jesus. The Jews thru their tradition, although not supported by the scriptures, expected the Messiah to be a spectacular ruling King, one who would arrive at the temple unannounced, and rule from a material kingdom.
    The Jews had ignored the scriptures which clearly told of where the Messiah would be born, of which tribe, and that he would be one of them raised among them. (Jn 7:41-43)
    It was the Jews reaction to Jesus, them trying to convict him in a lie or contradiction of the Law, which they were never able to do. Their reaction was to get rid of Him to protect their power and status.
    Jesus did not build a physical temple, but he did establish His church (spiritual) which one is able to be added to by God if you obey the New Law of the New Testament. (Acts 2)

    You mention that you don’t believe the Bible, but you also state that you have only read a little bit of it? I may of mis-understood?

    This is exactly why the Jews of Jesus time didn’t embrace him as the Messiah. It was their lack of knowledge. (Hosea 4:6)

  8. Misanthropic Scott says:

    Sorry Higghawker,

    I may be missing something here. But, I did have years of Hebrew school and have read at least the first five books of the bible. I am not familiar with you bible notation. What old testament book is Jn?

    Further, since the old testament does say that there will be peace after the coming of the messiah, how is that not proof positive that Jesus was not indeed the messiah?

    Still further, you have not yet convinced me that Jesus ever really existed. Josephus did his writing in 93, long after any living memory of Jesus. So, that will not convince me that the man ever existed.

    Lastly, it really is time that I point out that your religion has indeed turned you into a full-blown anti-Semite.

    You yourself are proof positive that your religion in particular causes a feeling of superiority over others rather than a oneness with others. Such feelings have been used throughout history right into the present to justify violence. You’re not far off. And, you’re not convincing me of anything other than the fact that religion is divisive and violent. Your own words lean heavily in that direction.

  9. […] One People Divided by Religion Both the Muslims and the Jews claim descent from a single man, though from different women. Ibu Ibrahim and ben Avraham mean exactly the same thing, son of Abraham. (tags: religion israel) […]

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: