Humanity: Guilty as Charged on at least 177 Counts of Megafauna Speciescide

Photo credit: Jennifer Carole via flickr

There has long been a scientific debate about what caused all of the extinctions that just seemed to follow humans wherever we went. Some said climate changes, despite the same species of animals having survived about a half dozen such changes previously. To me it has long been obvious that those arguing that we were innocent were simply insufficiently misanthropic and were in denial. Most scientists from whom we hear tend to be human themselves after all.

Now there’s a new study showing, of course, that we’re guilty as charged on all counts. And, this is just the relatively large species. It’s not even counting all the cute little critters we bulldoze over before we even know they’re there. OK, the speciescides referenced here predate bulldozers. So, maybe we didn’t kill off as many little species when we were still using clovis point weaponry, not as many as we are now anyway.

Anyone still wondering why I hate our species?

http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/humans-not-climate-change-blame-ice-age-animal-extinction

176 Responses to Humanity: Guilty as Charged on at least 177 Counts of Megafauna Speciescide

  1. Rodnikov Magilovich says:

    This is just part and parcel of what the nature of the natural World is! So why can’t you see that and get used to it? It might even be part of the DNA make up of the zoological beasts!
    For you to expect something different is as amazing as it is out of character! If Homo stupidous is to be above and not part of this “dog eat dog” scenario, then it would also make the theocratic theories more credible! So I suggest some more reflection on the status of the realities involved in the real World! Capice!

  2. Rodnikov Magilovich says:

    By the way, the errors in thinking involved are due to emotional decision making! Why are some “little critters called cute?” Duh!

  3. If I’m understanding you correctly Rodnikov, you’re more misanthropic than I am. I had not expected to be the one to have to come to humanity’s defense in this. Rather, I had expected that people would deny humanity’s responsibility for the extermination of other species.

    So, if I’m going to be in the opposite role of playing human’s advocate, I must first ask a few questions to clarify your opinion on the subject.

    • Are you suggesting that humans have no morality at all?
    • Are you suggesting that humans are incapable of overcoming our base urges?
    • Are you suggesting that humans are entirely programmed by our DNA down to the details of how we interact with the other sentiences with whom we share the planet?

    As for which of the smaller critters on the planet I consider cute, it’s nearly all species on the list of those who do not make their living eating us alive. I realize that is incredibly speciesist of me. I’m doing my best to be less speciesist. But, it’s very hard to overcome my own disgust at species like mosquitoes, ticks, and bot flies.

    That said, I do try to avoid swatting mosquitoes when they bite me, preferring to brush them off. And, before I knew that Marcia McFly was a bot fly and still thought of her as Marty McFly following us on the trail, I actually did photograph the cute shiny fly a couple of times. The maggots that ate our flesh and that we prematurely removed before the chrysalises emerged seemed far less cute to my prejudiced eye. And I did photograph some of the relatively pretty tiger leeches that got us a couple of times in Borneo.

  4. ECA says:

    wow,
    An interesting discussion on the ramifications of Over farming/Wars and over forestation..
    Dear Rod,
    Go talk to an older person about how many Deer USED to be wondering the mountains. HOW much fun it was to go hunting..and EATING what you killed.
    Lets look into the past and see that Even in the 1800′s that Chasing WHALES was taking longer and longer, as the Ships had to go farther because the Whales were decimated in the area…
    In the USA over 1/3 of the country is dedicated to farming, and if a random animal gets into the fields…1 of 2 things will happen.

    The GMO foods will kill him, or the Farmer will have some GOOD MEAT for the next month..

    It all leads to another interesting subject..
    That MANKIND used to have Controls on his population, based on FOOD PRODUCTION.
    BUT, now the 3 major countries are sending FOOD around the world, to MAKE MONEY…
    80% of produced food, grains and corn int he USA is EXPORTED.. And those that live here, at the poverty level, end up eating READY MADE OIL/SUGAR/SALT products, designed to make us EAT MORE…
    Being a MAJOR food exporter, you would think we have a great amount of food, and a reasonable HEALTHY life.. And food would be priced CHEAP…
    NOPE..
    Farmer gets about $3 per 100lb(40kg)…we pay at the store $1 per pound. And more.
    If there is a crop failure in the USA…WHO pays for it..Even if it only affects a 10% loss. the consumer. NOT THE EXPORTER, as his products are all paid for, and being exported…
    Still dont know who is backing this. I hope its not he tax payer.

    • ECA,

      I haven’t looked into this issue much, so can’t say anything very authoritative. But, it sure sounds as if you’re describing a situation where the exporters are buying futures. If I pay $3 for 100 lbs of corn in January, it doesn’t matter what happens between then and fall, I get my 100 lbs for $3. I already paid for it months ago, and you agreed. Presumably in a good year where there’s more corn than we know what do do with, even after we dump it into gas tanks as ethanol, you get your $3 from me when everyone else is paying $1. In those years you win. In the bad years, where corn sells for $9, you lose. Futures are a zero sum game. Someone makes a good bet; someone makes bad bet. Which is which varies year to year.

      That’s my guess. I’ve never worked a commodities market. But, I know a bit about various types of instruments. You can’t be completely ignorant of the basics working on Wall St.

      Or, just watch Trading Places and what what happens in the FCOJ market depending on whether the oranges survived the frost. Most of the movie may be bullshit. But, the idea of buying the oranges long before they’re harvested is real. So is the idea of betting on whether the year will be a good one or a bad one.

      • ECA says:

        sTOCK MARKET?
        Lets see what is what..
        SUGAR is a limited market in the USA..totally restricted.

        The Stock market was for STOCKS..there is even one for MEAT..
        but there was the OLD way where you had to take delivery and have ownership of the product before you could RESELL IT..
        NOW you can buy MILLIONS of tons…and never see it, before you sell it..
        stock MARKET WAS MADE/CREATED FOR farmers..not middle men.
        The Stock market is a LONG term LOW interest BANK..its no longer a GAMBLE of investing WHO will have a good crop. because you will over price goods, to the point that you WILL make a profit. SUGAR sells for $0.17 per pound..and you will NEVER buy it that low. because there are 2-3 CORPS selling it..before you get it..

  5. Technically we’re discussing the commodities market. I believe the biggest of these isn’t even in NYC. I think it’s the Chicago Mercantile Exchange that is the largest.

    The stock market is for stocks. I’ve done most of my work in the bond market. There’s also a derivatives market for things like options, swaps, futures, forwards, swaptions, and whatever other zero sum gambling they dream up on a moment’s notice.

    I guess commodities futures could be considered derivatives, but they’re not, I think. Betting on commodities futures is essentially betting on the weather.

    The one thing I’ll say though is that you’re wrong about the farmer. The basic concept of the commodities futures start with him/her. He/she wants to get at least a certain price for his’/her goods. So, s/he says, “I’ll sell you all the corn I grow for some agreed upon price now, regardless of how good or bad the year is.”

    In a bad year, that price is low. In a good year, that price is high. At the beginning of the year, it’s just a decent price for both sides.

    I’m not sure how the actual amount of crop successfully grown figures into it. I know that in a bad year, the price is high; in a good year, it’s low. But, I don’t know where the numbers come from in the commodities futures market. I don’t, for example, know what happens when futures are sold for more than is grown, or if that ever happens.

    As for getting all watery-eyed over the poor farmer, as far as I know, the real thing that is killing him/her has nothing to do with commodities exchanges, but with Archer Daniels Midland and Monsanto.

    Buy organics.

    That cuts Monsanto out of the picture. There are some large organics companies, but none like Archer Daniels Midland, at least not yet. And, it stops you from eating Agent Orange.

    • Just a minor correction to myself, despite the mental health implications of talking to myself.

      Roundup is merely one component in Agent Orange, not the whole chemical suite. Big ag sprays it on an entire field, like Nebraska, so that nothing will grow there, no weeds, nothing. The only things that can grow there are genetically modified crops that can tolerate growing in plant poison.

      The Roundup does get into the crop. And, it does get into women’s breast milk if they’ve eaten the crop. And, since no labeling of GMOs is required in the U.S. because Monsanto bought our politicians, you’re probably eating some of it in every meal.

      We’ve gone from:

      Eat your vegetables, they’re good for you.

      to:

      Eat your vegetables, they’re probably not that toxic.

  6. ECA says:

    MS,
    since most of the farms are corp owned, the Crops are PAid for, even before the crop is planted. the farmer has no say, any more.

    After the 70′s the corps had bought the farms, and to that mentality they needed to MAKE more crops, no matter the cost(as little as it is).
    The markups are from the middle men.
    The main processor, in this area, does most of the work, then ships to BIG name brands that (basically) re-packages it, and ships it back at 10 times the prices.

    Which is strange. Because IF’ the farmer could, he could do Basic processing and cleaning, and get over 2-4 times the price, selling local/State.
    IMHO, to many people are getting paid for what the FIRST processor already DID..and it isnt the CHEAP labor side getting the money.

    And MEAT processing is so AUTOMATED that its almost stupid. There is to much handling and not enough MEAT going around.

    Back on Subject.
    To restrict the market around most of the World, we need to CUT the supply of RAW animal Availability..
    Make it Easier to EAT what I want to give a person then to have them go out HUNTING.
    It also gives the availability of MORE land for farming, and cities.(can you guess where most animals populate? land wise..And WHERE people like to place their Cities)

    WE dont care about the animals. WE WANT CITIES.. it dont matter if its a SWAMP, BAYOU, FOREST, ANYTHING…we want to place homes and asphalt ont he ground and make CITIES.

    (an old problem from Rome. discussed and debated for years. ROADs help our military get around our empire. ROADS HELP the other tribes and groups to INVADE our Empire)

  7. Our current laws on slaughter of animals for meat are indeed ludicrous. This got significant coverage in The Omnivore’s Dilemma.

    Regarding the rest of food processing, vote with your wallet. Buying organic food will bypass a lot of the issues you mention, will get rid of a ton of pesticides, herbicides, and other toxic chemicals, will get rid of commercial fertilizer (a serious explosive, in addition to other issues), and will give you more healthful and tasty food.

    Regarding cities. We need a higher percentage of people living in cities. We need fewer people. We need fewer farms. We need zero suburbs. We need zero lawns. Most of the land that is being cleared or drained or otherwise bulldozed is still for farming, at least globally. And, even with clearing ever more land for food production, climate change is still reducing our total food productivity.

    People need to live stacked on top of each other. There are just too fucking many of us. And, too many of us are fucking … without birth control.

    Until our population is seriously reduced, we need to live as efficiently as we can. That does mean living on top of each other, even if it means transporting food from far away. NYC produces 1/3 less CO2 than the U.S. national average. You talk about cities as a bad thing. But, they are the most sustainable way for us to live. Heating or cooling an apartment that is part of a huge building takes a lot less energy than heating or cooling a free-standing house. Think about it. Only two of my walls are exposed to the elements. Not the floor. Not the ceiling. Not the other two walls. And, that’s because I live in a corner apartment. The middle one in which I used to live had just one wall exposed. And, apartments are typically smaller than houses, which is also a good thing environmentally. 1200 square feet is plenty for two people. In fact, it’s quite comfortable. Many couples live with less. Our prior apartment had just 900 square feet.

    When we had a house on Long Island, it was 1600 square feet + garage + basement. And, being a ranch, had a huge heat loss of a roof. What the fuck for? We didn’t need anywhere near that and are much happier now. We also no longer need to drive to the stupidmarket. Driving is an occasional thing for us now. When we lived on L.I., everything was 20-30 minutes by car. What a pain in the ass and an even bigger waste of fuel!

    We need to live on top of each other. We need public transport. We need walkable cities. We need to get the fuck out of the slumburbs, the least environmentally sustainable places in the world. Yeah. We need a few farmers. But, most of us should live in cities.

    And, did I mention stopping growing fucking lawns??!!?

    All that water … all that land … all those pesticides … all those herbicides … all that energy … all for fucking decoration that does nobody any good.

    But, again, most importantly, we need to reduce our population. If we don’t do it by attrition, nature will do it for us much more painfully.

    Got vasectomy?

  8. Cerberus says:

    Hello, Mr Scott.

    It is with sadness that I look upon our Earth, and know that the end of other species will bequeath only the death of ourselves…

    …and our refusal for understanding is our guide.

    Here is my own virtue that I live by, and others can take it for what it’s worth.

    “The universe is both life … And death.

    Seek truth with openness. The temperance of mind will grant a bounteous life….

    ….but seek by lies and conquest is your assured death.”
    Thomas Cerberus Black

  9. ECA idiot with a brain says:

    aLL THIS ABOUT the Fauna..
    HOW about the wild plants that were here before, WE killed most off.
    There are groups TRYING to re-grow them. they were designed for this country and land, and are threatened by all the CROPS and plants brought to this country.

    ITs strange, that the Plants we brought, at taking over the other plants. BUT, also we need to Support the LIFE cycle of most of the ones we eat..

    WHO here could go out and find Wild plants to EAT off the land?

  10. Tom,

    It may be the other way. The death of our species will cause numerous species to go extinct as the collateral damage of our warfare and eating out our resource base.

    As for life in the universe, the universe is mostly hostile to life. Some of this video is unrelated to the universe, but the video is also a great debunking of “Intelligent Design”. So, even though some of it is unrelated, I couldn’t resist posting this version of our hostile universe that segues into our pathetically stupid “design”.

    ECA,

    Good point about the plants. We tend to pay more attention to animals because … we animals move. Movement catches our attention. I’ve seen walking trees. But, the walking is too slow to catch our eye. It’s typically some small number of meters over the life of the tree.

    Earning a living the old fashioned way? I’d die in a very short time, not least of the reasons would be my inability to naturally harvest insulin. But, even without diabetes, I’d be crow food in fairly short order.

    • Cerberus says:

      I understand your position . It is the same as mine.

      The piece I’d provided was about a species own choice. A choosing to either continue their existence, or not, that was all.

      If one seeks the truth of all things, and tries not to upset the balance, then their continuance is assured.

      But, if one lie for their own selfish needs, will grant their kind death.

      • Cerberus says:

        I’m sorry if it was puzzling. Perhaps this will do:

        The universe is both life…and death.

        Seek truth with openness, and through the temperance of mind will grant a bounteous of life.

        But if one seeks by lies and conquest, is the assurance of their death.

        Thanks for the input, Scott. I really do enjoy you commentary.

  11. Cerberus,

    That’s all very interesting and profound. It’s also good guidance for individual morality.

    Unfortunately, as a species, we do not seek anything. We don’t even see much. People look at the thermometer outside their window to decide whether climate change is real. If we get a cold winter, we quickly forget all the warm ones. If it’s cold in my backyard, I don’t care what happens in Australia or Antarctica or the Arctic or Greenland or your backyard.

    As long as we have our McDs and MTV (or whatever people watch these days), what else matters? The waves hitting my front door? Yeah. But, 2 days later, not.

    Same with gasoline prices. Did you know that when gasoline prices are high for a week or two Toyota dealers start raising the prices on Prii and dealers can’t get rid of their SUVs? Then gasoline drops again and the SUVs sell like hotcakes to people who forget that, of course, in the life of their vehicles there will be times when gasoline is expensive.

    Seek truth? We’re just seeking the next order of fries and a cold bottle of the piss we call beer in this country … oh … and more ammo.

    • Cerberus says:

      Agreed on all points, Mr Scott. And thanks.

      We spread like a virus because we only see ourselves within our version of the “big picture” of things, and without ever realizing that all life on this planet is very interconnected.

      We do not offer temperance, nor think anything through because we’re too surrounded by corporate minds…

      …minds that only think in terms of money, or possessions. It is this corporate thinking that will be our undoing. They’ve robed the younger generation of thought through deception without ever realizing the real cost is all humankind.

      We need no longer be bound by them, no longer be lost by them, and no longer be at their mercy. But I’m afraid that we have already crossed that line. Is it no wonder? No.

      Their tactic is to always leave the public with misinformation and outright lies to dumb them down.

      Our doom is assured.

  12. Yup Cerberus. We’re agreed on all points. We say things slightly differently but reach the same conclusions for mostly the same reasons.

  13. Cerberus says:

    “Unfortunately, as a species, we do not seek anything.”
    (Scott)

    No. As a species we never look past ourselves, because we think that we are the only thing that matters. Why?
    Because of the corporate culture that teaches us to devalue others, to own people, societies, animals, and plants as if they are all just corporate property to be used how ever they see fit.
    They will never see past their own profit margins.

  14. The Expulsion Of Gods says:

    Hi all.

    Scott, that’s excellent!

    I guess it really is a combination of the then?
    That was very interesting. Thanks for sharing!

  15. ECA says:

    Part and parcel of the problem…
    Tends to be that MOST of the human species, GENERALLY, only wanted to be left alone, and when GROUPED together, we would share and get along, and try to protect ourselves, and those around us, mostly friends..
    WHICH is the general ideas behind many beliefs..HELP each other, as you may need help later also..Crop problems to Wolves, to Marauders..
    BUT some person had to be on top, and TELL everyone else what HE wanted them to do..(love those kings)
    Then along came BANKS..banks only have 1 thing they want. they WANT everything to have a VALUE.
    Just cause I bring over my Lawn mower and help you with YOUR LAWN..does not mean I want money.
    WHo remembers when Old furniture was something you Burned in winter to keep warm? NOW you take it ti an antique dealer FIRST..
    WE used to have BASIC utilities..Electric, Water, Gas…They were controlled by the gov. BUT SOMEONE SOLD the idea to GIVE them away to Corps to control them..
    WE used to control our Jails…we sold that to CORPS to do..Sold is a bad word..NOW we PAY to keep them in jail. AND the corps that run them are on the stock market..

    WHAT is the meaning of a LARGE corp being on the stock market? WHY do they need to be there? They make enough money to DO, most anything they wish. but they dont do it that way, as the STOCK market is a TAX DEDUCTION..generally equal to the output of wages to the TOP earners..PLUS the value of the corp, which means the WHOLe company is written off.

    Why does Sharing have to have a value? well, we USED to make things that would LAST. Why we made things we Tested them to the Specification and if it worked, we sold it. WE DIDNT check HOW HIGH the spec of the item was good for…most things were VERY HIGH…
    NOW, they go up to the specification, and STOP..they dont go past it. And they SAVE MONEY, as they found they could make things CHEAPER…but the sell them for the same of more.

    Here is a thought. Your LCD TV…has an estimated life of about 5-7 years..want a trick to make it last longer? Feel the top of it..FEEL the heat. thats not good. If yo mounted a small quiet fan, to blow air threw the case…you could make it last 10+ Years very simply.
    BUT for the price you paid, is the TIME/quality you paid for..

    LAND has VALUE…If it GROWS something it has MORE value..IF you can sell the Product, MORE value…
    we are in a world of VALUE.. you are worth something, as long as you are alive..WE KEEP you alive(maybe not functional)(love doctors and drugs), you are a commodity.
    IF an item has value, it MUST be owned.

    • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

      Hi, ECA.

      -WHICH is the general idea’s behind many beliefs…HELP each other, as you (may?) “will” need help later also.-

      Nice post!
      You really do have a way with words. So much wisdom.

      Thank you, ECA.

      • ECA says:

        EOG,
        well,
        ask MS, about me..Iv been on this planet along time, and have many discussions of the last 5? years with those that will debate with me.
        Im a people watcher..I like Thinking. its hard to explain things sometimes..AS there are many PARTS to the problems.
        MOST caused from only a few sources..

        Its an old subject..we used to use WOOD for many things, and now plastics..but which is cheaper?
        They tried to say Aluminum cars were lighter/better/ but more expensive..but AFTER you added all the reinforcement and other STUFF..it weighted the same..and only COST MORE then steel.

        If we had an international STOCK pricing, based on the Value of the WORLD product, insted of regional…prince int eh USA would go down. BUT that wont happen, as long as corps have a say..

        1 person I know keeps mentioning ’1 world government’..and I ask him WHAt would you get out of it? the only thing they would want, is money..and that can be done through manipulating the stocks and Export product prices…WHICH is already being done. It only leads to MORE fingers in the PIE…and the PIE is getting OLD.

        I have to quit saying stuff..its to late for this.

      • Cerberus says:

        Ummm, that’s not entirely true, is it?

        EOG, religion’s but a label. And most people use labels for their own personal gain. That’s just a fact. It is also for telling stories of a tribes past, but it is the central leader, or (king) that has all authority in all matters, whatsoever. Do you not see this? And if not, why not?

        Religion has always been a tool for control.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        Cerberus, stop being a pick. You know how I feel about this. But, okay. I guess I’ve asked for it.

        I don’t believe that God is only a label. There are many people that are evil that, yes, use it for advancement with no fulfillment, but not all of us are like that, you know? I’ve no doubt that it has stories of their past, and kings had “all authority”, but what does that authority have to do with it now?

        And as far as it being a tool for control – I don’t see it being as such insofar as its supposed total control over our world.

      • Cerberus says:

        What the hell? “Stop being a pick?” Really?
        Now I think you’re messing with me, you little fart.

        Okay. Read carefully.
        Your god, like any other before it, is an invention. Have you not read your bible? And if you even think that it brings any “fulfillment” at all, then may I suggest seeing that Dr again?

        Your god has never existed. You are feeling only what you want to feel. And it’s called “emotion.”

        Authority? Huh.
        Haven’t you ever noticed how many theists are in our government lately? Hummm?
        What about our money?..notice anything there? The pledge? Hmmmm?

        Wow! I can’t believe I’m having this debate with you. But, nonetheless it’s all good. ;)

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        -Now I think you’re messing with me,-

        Nailed it! Ha, ha! o_O
        You suggest I need to see my psychologist?!
        Just for that little remark, no hug for you next time, Mr. :-(

      • Cerberus says:

        EOG,

        If I’ve offended you, then may I offer an apology? It really wasn’t my intention to upset you.

        And I’m sorry.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        I will except your apology, but only after you jump through a flaming, hoop?

        No, I’m only kidding my three headed friend. I know you mean nothing by that. You’re a very sweet person, and I’ve always enjoyed talking
        to you. You have helped me get through some really bad times, and especially when I really needed someone.

        Honey, you are my family, and I’d really like to hug you at the moment. :’(

        Oh god, I love you!

        Well, I’m going to bed. I’ve had a long night.
        I’ll try and be here tonight, k sweety? Love ya. O:-)

      • Cerberus says:

        Now I’m at a loss for words.

        I really thank you with all my being for those very kind words, EOG. I had no idea that I was that important to you.

        And you’re the most beautiful woman that I’ve ever met in my entire life, EOG.

        And I love you too.
        Hope to see you then.

  16. The Expulsion Of Gods says:

    Sweety, you’re doing fine at explaining things, and I know how it can be in offering clarity on issues when debating, you’re doing fine, okay?

    I too think that religious beliefs had started with the best of intentions to only to later be corrupted by other people that saw how easy it was in making profit for them.

    And wood is the cheapest product at the moment. But if we use just wood for everything, being that there are many people on the planet today, wouldn’t it have dwindled away within 100 years? Perhaps faster?

    Wouldn’t it be more useful by keeping plastic in our product line?

  17. ECA says:

    As to wood products..
    AS a developed nation, is there an Alternative to WOOD?
    yes..and they are natural..
    Easy to grow..and ABIT restricted..
    Consider that MUCH of our wood tends to end up as PULP and then add glue to make it into many products..
    HEMP and bamboo can cover 99% of all wood needs, as well as many others..Bambo can get over 40′ tall in a few years..
    The smaller Diameter Bamboo can grow in Close quarters..and regrows Quickly..

    • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

      Hi ECA, and Scott.

      ECA
      So, your answer is something that hippies smoke? Why? And, can it really be useful for paper products?

      • Cerberus says:

        What, no greetings for me?

        Yes, EOG. Hemp was used in many products like radios and such, as it was made into a kind of plastic.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        Greetings? Oh, umm hi, Cerberus.

        So why isn’t it being used today? Hope this isn’t a stupid question.

      • Cerberus says:

        Hi, EOG.

        Not a stupid question at all.

        The timber industry lied about it because it was cutting into their profits.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        Oh, okay. That makes sense. I really had no idea of its uses.

        Thanks

      • ECA says:

        EOG,
        excuse me if this is stupid..
        how old are you? Older then 20? 30?
        MJ is part of the Hemp family…You can SMOKE hemp all your life, ALL day long, and only get dizzy from Oxygen deprivation..
        Its been used for many product, EVEN before CHRIST and further back before the Egyptians..
        HEMP was made illegal, for many reasons..MONEY is the big one.
        Hemp can be used for GREAT ropes, and still is, as we IMPORT it for ship ropes..
        It can be made into Cloth, Sails, and is a great Canvas..The OIL is one of the best and can be made for any purpose..
        OIL corps dont like the idea, Lumber corps dont like it, Synthetic CLOTH HATES IT…

        Bamboo, can be processed into Pulp and used in ANY wood alternative. its also Stronger then Wood.. Its a natural WEED ALSO..its really a type of grass, like in your yard..and Grows as fast…Bamboo can grow 10′ in a month..its great for wind breaks..

        WE have gone from a world of ingenuity, to a WORLD that Every thing MUST COST MONEY.. TOP corps world wide, is LESS then 20 that own every other company..(at least 90% of them)..and that is so they can make Pennies from every sale, every transfer of a product..They make MORE money, shipping things BACK AND FORTH, thru 2,3,4 companies…then they make selling the product itself.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        ECA,

        That’s not a stupid question, sir. But I’m hopeful that you do realize that my not ever having exposure to hemp would leave me with a disadvantage of knowing anything of its affects on the brain, or its general uses. So, can I say thank you for all information provided, sir?

        Oh, and I’m 24.

      • BTW, I’m not sure I’m remembering this correctly (as in remembering from reading, not from experiencing) but I think hemp was also opposed by the cotton industry. And, anything relating to marijuana, even hemp, probably was viewed as a threat to the alcohol industry as well.

        It’s not that far a leap to think that if hemp were unregulated and grown all over some number of years ago that it would have been harder to track down and arrest those growing actual marijuana which looks basically the same.

        Remember, we’re talking about history. No one then was growing breeds of marijuana that bud at only 1′ tall in closets with 600W fluorescent lights and carbon dioxide controlled environments. It was still being grown in fields.

  18. ECA,

    Not to put too much of a damper on the wonderful love-in that has been taking place on my misanthropic hippie site, but I was at a recent lecture by Steven Pinker that disabused me of some very common, but wrong, notions I’d had.

    Interestingly, Steven Pinker got together with anthropologists studying both prehistoric hunter-gatherer societies and modern day hunter-gatherer societies. He found that unlike my preconceived notions, hunter-gatherer societies had more violence per capita than we do today.

    We hear about it a whole lot more now. We have global news and a lot more people.

    But, the 20th century even with the holocaust and Stalin included in the numbers, was the most peaceful century in the 2000 centuries of humanity’s existence. Prior to the 20th century, the most peaceful was the 19th. We are becoming ever less likely to die at the violent hands of another human being.

    I was shocked.

    I was sure that the genocides and paranoid purgings of the 20th century would be the most violent period in history. Certainly, it was the higher number of violent deaths. But, it was also the most populous time in human history. On a per capita basis, i.e. number of murders per N people, we are more peaceful now than ever before.

    Strange.

    I haven’t read the book yet. But, here’s the link.

    Too bad we’re going to be at our most peaceful just before our own extinction caused by our own actions.

    EOG and Cerberus,

    I’m going to have to take issue with the idea that religion and/or the idea of god(s) was benign in the beginning. Perhaps this was true of early animism and polytheism. But, I find it hard to say this about the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religion. That Yahweh character is a psychopathic, violent sicko, by whatever name we call him or her now.

    • Holy crap!! Look what wordpress did to my simple amazon link automagically. Not bad. I think I’ll leave it that way.

      • ECA says:

        “Interestingly, Steven Pinker got together with anthropologists studying both prehistoric hunter-gatherer societies and modern day hunter-gatherer societies. He found that unlike my preconceived notions, hunter-gatherer societies had more violence per capita than we do today. ”

        MS..
        you didnt understand this? REALLY?
        its estimated that the average population for HUMANS was like 100,000 world wide.
        THIS was a time when there were LOTS of animals that would eat what they CAUGHT..Tigers/lions/bears..out numbers HUMANS..
        Mankind learned to PACK together just to keep safe.

        Finding a SAFE place to build anything wasnt easy. Thats why most of them were Wonders..
        Another point, is that a VERY large group, cant survive in 1 spot. It would decimate the land of food and much materials. So there came a Small location for groups to gather..
        God, this is a long subject.

      • Yes.. ECA. I understand that. People did band together for safety among other reasons. But, the biggest threat to humans, especially since the advent of advanced weaponry like clovis point weapons, atlatls, bows and arrows, and the rest has always been humans.

        That’s why we were able to drive even the sabre toothed tiger to extinction.

        As for a population of 100,000 globally, I’m not sure what time frame you mean. 70-80,000 years ago, our population dropped to just 2-7,000 individuals. By the time Columbus arrived in the Americas, the human population of North America alone is estimated at 20,000,000. Population density would likely be higher in the more productive areas, such as tropical rain forests. But, I don’t know the statistics on that.

      • ECA, the idiot that walks..talks and makes funny faces.. says:

        WELL,
        what PUSHED human population is interesting..It happened in Spurts. The First estimated `1million population world widde was AT the introduction of machinery and automation..as also at that time, medicines started popping up.

        but it was a strange TIME as MEN, RELIGION, were finding Witches, herbalists and killing any person(mostly females, that Cared about keeping people and such HEALTHY)..
        It was a strange time..I cant get it into my head that SOME oddball idea entered religion(AND MENS) heads..that ONLY the bible and MEN had an ability to keep people healthy.
        For some reason, after many centuries, MEN came to understand that ONLY MEN, and WHITE religion, was correct for a lifestyle..
        And the White EU MEN started killing everything that moved..

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        ECA?
        Please don’t look at yourself that way sweety. Please?

        You’re much too interesting and highly intelligent to even utter those words.

        I don’t see you that way….nor will I ever.

      • Cerberus says:

        I hold the same sentiment, ECA…But I’ll never call you sweety.

    • Cerberus says:

      Steven Pinker? What the hell?…

      “Pinker sees language as unique to humans, evolved to solve the specific problem of communication among social hunter-gatherers. ”
      (Wikipedia)

      And yet, great apes can learn sign language. Yet, he states that it is unique only to humans?

      I believe that the complex human mind had indeed evolved from earlier hunter-gatherer communities, but the only difference between we humans and the great apes is one in brain capacity, thus culture. As both species think in much the same way.

      I’m stating to think Mr Bobbo was right about this.

      Nevertheless, there is the problem of other species such as elephants that are extremely unrelated to humans, yet, share some of the same basic behaviors. And in addition, have some of the same thought patterns as we humans in relation to death, the killing of our central leaders, which without any guidance would result in anarchy for the populace. This has also been the case for wolves too.

      Huh. Very interesting man Scott.
      Thanks

      • I didn’t say I agreed with Pinker on everything. He’s particularly human focused. So, he likely isn’t aware of ape language or that vervet monkeys lie about the presence of predators to break up a fight when their side is losing.

        Likely, he’s one of the many who like to define language to mean with complex syntax or some other definition that makes it exclusively human. Such definitions keep changing because other animals keep meeting the new definitions.

        Anyway, I often find that some of the best anthropologists pay so little attention outside their field that they don’t give sufficient credit for intelligence to other species. Don’t worry though, the people studying human evolution note the similarities between humans and other animals and correct such assumptions, at least for those of us who read a wider range of topics and do not specialize so severely.

        As a non-scientist myself, I am definitely not overly specialized.

        (Oh yeah. My degree is a bachelor of science in computer science. Computer science is not science. At least it isn’t as practiced by programmers. Perhaps those who are on the cutting edge doing things like designing quantum computers can be called scientists. But, those of us who write (or wrote) code for financial institutions? Nope. Not science.)

    • Cerberus says:

      Oh, and one more thing, Mr Scott.

      I have never, not ever, had the belief that any gods were ever in the beginning. That invention came later with the group or society as they began to ask questions about the self, and where do we come from.

      They were never in the beginning.

      But, I suppose there is another with the opposing religious view on this? Ha! ;)

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        I see I’m going to invest in a choke collar for you, Mr Cerberus! XD

        Why would you think that there were no gods/God in the begging?

  19. EOG, I’ll field that one. There is nothing about the universe or biology to suggest the presence of a designer. Most of the universe will kill all life instantly. So, the universe is actively hostile to life. Earth itself, our little Garden of Eden, so to speak, has killed off 99.9% of all species that ever existed.

    As for our own alleged design:

    The males of all mammals have nipples that serve no purpose.

    80% of all humans experience back pain at some point in their lives, the result of evolving from knuckle-walking apes, a bad design.

    Most humans also have knee trouble for the same reason.

    Males are born with testicles up in their chests due to our fish history. Those testicles must later drop to our scrota. This leaves a hole through which the testes traveled, causing males to be especially prone to hernias.

    In order to speak, we had to pump air through our gills (which evolved into our larynx). Doing so requires that we eat, drink, and breathe through the same hole, guaranteeing that many of us will choke to death.

    Our eyes are backwards. The rods and cones face away from the light, and instead see reflected light. The brain compensates for this by inverting the inverted image we receive. Bad design. Worse still, because the rods and cones face the wrong way, the nerves go into the eye rather than out of the eye. They must then be bundled and go through a hole in the retina, causing blind spots in each of our eyes. God, if he existed, would have given us the same design for our eyes as squid and octopi, which have rods and cones facing the right way and also have highly complex eyes and excellent vision.

    Amputees. Many other species, can regrow a limb. Why can’t humans?

    Armpit hair.

    OK, I’m mostly joking about the last one. But, seriously, armpit hair??!!?

    So, what evidence would you like to present for the existence of any gods?

    • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

      Oh, and what about the life that’s still contained on the moon? Shouldn’t it have died? Wouldn’t that show you it’s more resilient than once proposed?

  20. Oh, and of course, there is the classic, if god(s) created the universe, who created god(s)?

  21. The Expulsion Of Gods says:

    -EOG, there’s nothing about the universe or biology to suggest the presence of a designer.-

    How do you know that? Are you a designer? Can you define one?

    Yes, the designer may be dead now – like people, or stars … but like life and death in this universe, as everything lives and dies, perhaps another has taken the place of original designer?

    Scott, you said that the universe is actively hostile to life, but it isn’t on a mission of seek and destroy, is it? Life has a beginning and end – even the universe itself. But can you say that another wouldn’t take its place? one with lots of similarities to our own?

    So, I’ll ask you the question again. Can you define a God?

    • Cerberus says:

      EOG
      “How do you know that?”

      Because the universe has no concern for, you, I, or any one of us…

      …nor any other that may be in this universe.

      He, Scott, nor I, nor you EOG, nor anyone else are gods.

      We define and attribute ourselves to something that will never show itself, because many people let their clergy do their thinking for them. They, as you, will never see this because your mind is made up, and you will not let go of a crutch that isn’t even holding you up! Why is this? Because all gods are the result of the human psyche, and thereby falsifiable! All gods, not one, but all!

      So, EOG…
      Can you define one? And are they the equivalent to people? No? No.

      EOG, are you a deist?

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        Bad dog! No bone for you! :-P

        Okay. I won’t define myself at the moment. But offer instead something for you to choke on! lets see if you get it since you’re asking.

        ¤ Gods have to exsist to best explain the unknown that we’re in, as we live within a universe of causality.

        ¤ Do others live within another plain of existence that would’ve been the creators of this plain of existence?

        ¤ Not that any omnipotent being will ever show itself, but until we can establish a cause, then it is one of many alternatives to explore, isn’t it?

        ¤ Exist, or rather, what is existence? Can it be defined? And were there others within another universe that created this one before their end?

        Would they not be like a God/Gods?

        Again, can you define one?

      • Cerberus says:

        No bone? No bone!
        I don’t want a bone!

        I WANT CACON!!!

        ——————

        But you have defined yourself already.

      • Cerberus says:

        Umm, that was supposed to be “bacon.” My mind is wondering again.

        Oh, well.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        A wondering mind? And what is on your mind? Hmmmm?

        You’re so bad.

        Think you’ve answered it?
        May I suggest you read it again?

      • Cerberus says:

        You’re a deist. That was easy.

        And my mind isn’t in the gutter. Just thinking is-all.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        Just wondered what you were thinking about. Sorry that you still haven’t defined what I am.

        And this is the problem. If you cannot define my label, then how will you define a God? Hmmm?

      • Cerberus says:

        Oh, so it’s a game? Being a bit cryptic are we?

        Damn it, I don’t like this…but very well.

        Yes, we live in a universe of causality, but can you show the causality of any gods? Can you show their effects, anywhere?
        Remember, they would have to abide by the laws of this universe.

        I have no idea whether there is other beings that live, or not, within the recesses of another universe…,or plain of existence. Hell, I can’t even provide any proof for this…the same as you cannot provide proof for the existence of any and all deities. But I’ll admit that I do entertain the thought of said others. But it still does not bequeath any gods.
        Please show us how that’s even possible, will you?

        And to ask the question of our existence , when you obviously indeed do exist, has already answered your own question, hasn’t it?

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        -Oh, so it’s a game?-

        Kind of.

        -Being a bit cryptic are we?-

        Maybe. And you still haven’t provided that label, have you? Nope.

        Now, to your first question pertaining to a causality of Gods.

        If just one has exited, could it not make another? And could that god not make others too?
        And wouldn’t our universe be the result of their creative powers?

        And would they then, have to interact with this universe? No. Not since they aren’t equipped to come here and abide by the laws of this universe. What if they’re already dead?

        What am I then? How did I get here?
        And, is this all that I am?… Is there nothing
        more?

        Please read it once more. Will you?
        My message is there … If only you’ll see it.

        Well, I’ll be back sweety. I’m going out for a while, k? See you soon.

    • Defining the designer should generally be reserved for someone who thinks there is one. What I will say is that I can recognize bad design when I see it. A design that is wasteful and produces bad results is not the result of a designer, at least not a good one.

      As for the definition of god, for lower case god, I’ll go with definition one:

      god (ɡɒd)
      — n
      1. a supernatural being, who is worshipped as the controller of some part of the universe or some aspect of life in the world or is the personification of some forceRelated: divine

      For uppercase God, I’ll also go with definition one:

      God
      [god] Show IPA
      noun
      1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

      Source:

      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/god

      More later. I need to be up early tomorrow.

  22. Cerberus says:

    Damn it! I really hate it when you do this…if you would just be forward about this, we’d have some meaningful discussion. But, noooOOOooo!

    Okay. I’ll read it again, but I’m starting to loose all hope and some of my patience with this.

    And now you leave me just hanging on top of that?!

    SHIT!!

    Must think positive thoughts.

    • Cerberus says:

      Ummm, EOG, I’d like to apologize for showing a bit of my temper, but I like for others to be forward with how they feel on such matters, okay? Moving on.

      I think that I’ve obtained what it is you’re trying to communicate to the rest of us – I just hope I’m right about this, but if not, then I forfeit the game. And you win. However, if I win, then you must put an end to that cryptic bullshit. Got it?

      Here we go. And point for point.

      “• Gods have to exist to best explain the unknown that we’re in, as we live in a universe of causality.”

      “• Do others live within another plain of existence that would’ve been the creators of this plain of existence?”

      “• Not that any omnipotent being will ever show itself, but until we can establish a cause, then it is one of many alternatives to explore, isn’t it?”

      And here’s the one that gave it away.

      “• Exist, or rather, what is existence?
      Can it be defined? And were there others within another universe that created this one before their end?”

      When I first looked at this, I was a bit confused. But, you first stated that you believed in the Christian God. Now with this, you’re showing something entirely different. I thought, why the change? Could it be that she really has no belief in them?

      That’s when it hit me with your last statement. Your first word was “EXIST,” and then I knew what you were saying.

      From the first word in every sentence comes….

      (Gods)

      (Do)

      (Not)

      (Exist)

      Is this right? And if so, can we please have real meaningful conversations henceforth?

      • Cerberus says:

        Oh, yeah. And your label would read ((Atheist)) btw.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        Cerberus,

        I commend you for your efforts, you have indeed labeled my person. But if you ever change your position again by way of embarrassing my friend (Mr ECA) like this again, I will willingly hound you for it!
        You got that?! Hmmmm?!

        That was nicely done. Very clever.

        Just, please don’t do that again. Okay?

      • Cerberus says:

        Ohh, what the fuck.

        Exactly when and where did I change my position? How was it again that I’ve even tried to embarrass Mr ECA?

        I would’ve never have done so, at least not intentionally, and i want to know when and where did I do so. Can you please show me this EOG?!

        I will await your response.

      • ECA says:

        you cant embarrass me.. im to old for that..
        Im the guy in Right field…ASK MS.. I can change a topic in an instant.

        We have been ranting on a board for years, with a FEW other old people..and had some wonderful debates.
        As a few passed into the beyond and the site has almost DIED…
        we are now here, debating Concepts and meanings..

      • Cerberus says:

        Yeah … I know. Thank Mr ECA.
        I myself am an old fart, but at least I try and give a good investigative and reasonable response… Unlike EOG who is quite prone to act on emotion and does not understand the reasoning at times when one should hold their thoughts to themselves, and only with enough information to back it should one then speak and say what they have to say. She has no concept of this, for it would seem to escape her. She has a lot to learn in life, as one should never just jump to conclusions without the fact to back it up.

        Sorry for all this, Mr Scott, And Mr ECA.

      • No need to apologize to me for having a discussion on my blog. Just please understand that I do charge for friendship counseling and psychotherapy. Please send a bottle of Laphroaig my to my PayInWhiskeyPal account. Wait. Let me trademark that.

        And, Scott is my first name so no need for Mr. I only get formal with people who seriously annoy me.

      • Cerberus says:

        Got it. And thanks. LMFAO!!

        And, I’ll try not to be that formal anymore, Mr Scott.

      • Cerberus says:

        Oh, shit. I was being formal again.

        Sorry Scott, guess I’m just used to it.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        Someone talking about me?
        I knew my ears were burning for some reason.

        Did someone say I’m in need of his expertise in psychotherapy? Hmmmm?

        Guess when going to the city tomorrow, I’ll just have to invest in another choke collar for my misanthropic friend to wear around his neck too. :-P

        Here’s your clue, Cerberus.

        Please re-read the post from your forth head – oh, um, Scotty’s post, as you still haven’t even offered any clarity on your position.

        Now, before everyone here jumps me for my claiming that Cerberus tried to embarrass ECA, let me just offer this for the record. Okay?

        The company that my uncle owns is now in the black, but this is not without much sacrifice. He is in recognition now of my many talents, but he also knows how much this is taking a toll on me with respect to all the workload I’ve had in the past 3 months.

        I was in the office one evening and fell over from exhaustion, and when I became conscious again, I was told that I’m on a 2 week vacation, and there was going to be no argument about it.
        He knows that I always have one ready for him, but I offered not one this time.

        That wouldn’t mean I’m a bad girl, would it?

      • Just to be clear EOG. I did not suggest that either you or Cerberus was in need of psychotherapy. I was just recognizing that this blog was being used as some form of psychotherapy or relationship counseling or some such. And, since it is my blog being used that way, that I should get a fee for any psychological and relationship services you two are getting here. I don’t care which of you buys the Laphroaig and emails it to me or puts it on my PayInWhiskeyPal account. Or, maybe you each owe me a bottle.

        So e-choke me all you want. Keep the conversation going. Neither is bothering me. In fact, I generally like it when my blog is active. It gets my own endorphins going.

        Damn. Now maybe I owe each of you a bottle of the liquor of your choice.

      • Damn again. I misremembered the name of the band in The Money Pit. I thought it was “Bad Girls”, which is why I thought of it after EOG called herself a bad girl. Now it makes no sense for me to want to post this clip of the band that wants to change their name from “Cheap Girls”. It’s totally different. And yet, that doesn’t stop my silly human brain from wanting to post it anyway. I hate it when that happens.

        http://www.anyclip.com/movies/the-money-pit/changing-bands-name/#!quotes/

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        That’s okay Scott, I was only teasing you, k? I ment nothing by that remark. Or, can’t I tease you? Hmmmm?

        Perhaps I’ll send you a bottle? ;-)
        Thanks, Scott. You are indeed very entertaining, and I enjoy our friendly conversations.

        And I’m only too happy to be here with all my good friends. ♡ Thanks so much for your kindness and understanding.

        Okay, Cerberus. Here you are.

        MS on June 16, 2014 @ 12:05
        Your reply on June 16, 2014 @ 6:50

  23. ECA, the always strange.. says:

    This is a good video land use..there is another on FISH populations..

    • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

      Oh my god, ECA! That was a most excellent piece, beautifully done, and very appealing! And I very much appreciate it!
      Thank you so much! ♡

      And, Sir?
      You are a wonderful person too. K? I don’t see you as someone stupid, or even strange, k?

      I see you as a person with a powerful and very interesting intellectual mind. You have a very good position too.. It’s to bad that a few others are not in recognition of this.
      Their loss.

      Now … there’s one more person that I’m going to get back at. :O

    • The Expulsion Of Gods is strange says:

      Night, ECA.

  24. The Expulsion Of Gods is strange says:

    ECA?

    You can go with “always strange.” I think the name fits us both.

    I guess I was a little mad at, Cerberus.

  25. ECA says:

    http://www.nationofchange.org/farmers-see-better-animal-health-non-gmo-feed-scared-say-so-1403019863

    as well as Monsanto is going to fight in NJ…over Labeling GMO foods..
    If you know much about GMO, you will know that 90% of the cron in the USA is GMO..Any product made with it, and labeled, would include everything from Cereal to SOUP

    • They’re suing VT over labeling. I wasn’t aware of any issue with NJ. I can’t imagine Bridge Bridgie supporting labeling.

      Hell, he won’t even let those of us in NJ buy a Tesla. DMV here has disallowed all sales of autos without a dealer. Ass. Protectionist ass. He just doesn’t want dealers to lose the money on the sales of Teslas, and worse, lose the money for servicing them.

      Tesla (and any fully electric car):

      Next scheduled oil change: Never.
      Next scheduled air filter change: Never.
      Next scheduled fuel filter change: Never.
      Next scheduled timing belt change: Never.
      Approximate time to replace exhaust: Never.
      Approximate time to replace transmission: Never.

      Etc.

      Electric cars just don’t need the same amount of maintenance as fossil fuel burners, including hybrids.

  26. ECA, This one’s for you. It’s right up your alley. Of course, given that animals are healthier with non-GMO crops, it’s a pretty solid bet that humans are as well. But, Monsanto is still suing Vermont over that state’s law requiring labeling of GMOs.

    I wonder how the farmers are able to get their animal feed labeled and we can’t get human food labeled? Or, do they just somehow know who they’re buying from?

    http://www.nationofchange.org/farmers-see-better-animal-health-non-gmo-feed-scared-say-so-1403019863

    • ECA says:

      Something I point out to those around my area, its ALL FARMING HERE…
      If the bugs wont eat it and the rats wont go near it…Should you be eating it?

      Even with all the GMO, and all the EXPORTS to other nations, you would think that we COULD be eating very well..but it seems they found the magic trick of CHEAPER substitutes, and claim that REAL food costs to much..
      GET A HINT PEOPLE…they would rather SELL OUR FOOD, then feed us. but its funny to consider that Bangladesh can PAY more for the food then we can, UNLESS you think of it in a Skew’d way..

      Think hard now..WHY GIVE FOOD AWAY??
      A subject: food as a weapon..look it up.
      If you FEED a country for free, for about 10-20 years…the farmers cant compete with free..What happens to them? Their children..Look at the news. they show it(less now then in the past). SHANTY towns around the larger Cities..for all those people TRYING to get free food..
      Farmers arnt getting any money..UNLESS they grow CROPS, for export..and then its like PENNIES of what it will be sold for in the USA.. Seen any FAIR TRADE products on shelves??

      For those that REALLY dont get it..Go look at the commodities market..Look up SUGAR..(Sugar is a closed market in the USA, and we dont make enough of it) its around $0.17 per pound..you cant buy it for that. AND any import is taxed $1 per pound..
      Also, Sugar is one of the CHEAPEST products around the world..
      Look up anything you want..a Bushel is about 40lbs if you dont know..
      ALSO, in the past, you had to Take delivery of the product, BEFORE you could resell it..its not that way anymore..99.999% of transactions, will never lay an EYE on the product. Even if its traded 1000 times..

  27. If the bugs wont eat it and the rats wont go near it…Should you be eating it?

    Not only no, but fuck no.

    I wish the food as a weapon surprised me more than it does. I’d never heard that before. I’ll look into it. It makes some degree of sense in a sick, twisted, fucked up kind of way.

    To be fair on the price of sugar though, it may just be one of those things that costs more to package than the product itself. That probably doesn’t justify the prices we pay in the store. But, it’s not fair to expect to pay in the store the price you see on the commodities market. I’m not looking to buy N,000 tons of it loose in rail cars, or however it’s transported. (Somehow I have visions of it being transported like coal. I’m sure it isn’t. But, the idea of white coal is amusing to me. Rock salt probably is shipped that way. I doubt sugar is.)

  28. ECA, the stranger in a strange land..remote from Pluto. says:

    The BASIC rule here, and to most of the group, is to be willing to backup what you are saying..
    GENERALLY it isnt hard, but its NICE to have GOOD locations to Quote/mis- quote…then to have a SHAM SITE..

    There are TIMES, we use STRANGE sites, but its because of the IDEAS they expound..Suggest, say, point out..SHOW things that are hidden.. If you do use 1-2 of those thoughts, I suggest you have more then a FEW sites to back up your opinion.

    ANYthing you say is an OPINION..its your collected knowledge as you have Seen/sorted it in memory. As with many thing, you may have missed something..
    DONT mind debates…but TRY to keep personal attacks to minor Adjustments to speech..

    If you take offense to what someone SAYS…I suggest you dont respond to it.. It takes 2 to debate if you are a hemorrhoidal system.. And trying to DEBATE against it, only shows HOW much of you is SHOWING..

    If you have an OPINION..SAY it..if we can CORRECT IT, let us try..I say TRY, because i cant FIX anyone…you have to FIX it..with MORE input of knowledge..

    Good luck guys..hope this dont upset anyone.

    • Cerberus says:

      Didn’t upset me. I like what you have to say!

    • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

      I like the new name, ECA, but might I ask you something?

      If at all, we are just murmuring our own opinions, then when standing before a tree that is independent of (you) the observer, is that tree before you just an opinion? I know that it is in your opinion in name, but is that life just a meager opinion?

  29. Cerberus says:

    Umm, EOG? Can you give me a specific post?

    And don’t worry yourself over that incident as I consider the matter settled. I know how that feels.

  30. Cerberus says:

    Oh, shit. I think I’m starting to slip in my old age.

    Okay. After reading the post from MS, I realized that I must’ve glanced over it. So I will clarify.

    Scott is right.
    Perhaps the polytheistic religions of our past may have been “benign,” but the supposed monotheistic deity is not in any way.

    Wow. I can’t believe I missed that one.

    • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

      Good for you sweety. And don’t feel bad about it either. We all do it. Look what I did to you, but you understood.

      Ummm …. by chance, would you be willing to come over to my place within the near future?

      • Cerberus says:

        Yeah, and thanks EOG.

        What? Come over to your place? Uh, don’t you have a boyfriend?
        I don’t think he’d like that, would he?

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        I don’t care if he does or not.

        You see, I caught him with another woman the other day, but he insists that she is only a friend. But I suspect it’s more than that..as he doesn’t realize that I’ve been hearing things from the grapevine. And it got me thinking…
        …I thought, if he can have another because of my absence from home, as I cannot be there for him on the count of my job, then I’ll invite whomever I want to my home. After all, it is my home, isn’t it?

        And I think about you a lot. You’re my baby.

      • Cerberus says:

        Oh, fuck!

        Look EOG. I don’t want any trouble. That is not what I want – are you just trying to get him jealous or something?

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        I’m not trying to promote any jealousy at all. He has gone to another, and I’m quite sure of this, and he can be in denial all he wants, but I already know his position. He just hasn’t figured that out yet.

        Look sweety, I’ve been wanting to see you really bad, and I may need help because he has a temper sometimes, and this is a side that he almost never shows in public.

        Will you please come over?

  31. Whatever you two decide, just remember to keep it safe.

    • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

      Oh my god! You’re awful!
      Bad Scotty.

      But I really wouldn’t mind if he did.

      • Cerberus says:

        Woo, oh wow!
        I think I’m calming down now. And Scott, it may be old, but it sure was funny. You got us good. Thanks man! I really enjoyed that!

      • Cerberus says:

        Okay, now.

        “I really wouldn’t mind if he did.”

        Oh boy.

        EOG, you do realize how old I am, right? So, I’m really not so sure that we should do anything like that together.

        You’re a beautiful woman with a long life ahead of you, and I’m getting older and as such I think that I’d be nothing but a crutch to you. In fact, I’d only be in your way.

        This don’t mean that I don’t love you, or want to have fun with you .., it just means that, if we did do so, we wouldn’t be together for very long. As I’ve said, I’m getting older, and I’m much older than you. Please reconsider that?

        But I will be over if you really need me.

    • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

      I do have to admit that was really funny Scott! kudos!

      Oh my god! I had no idea you were still there!
      How embarrassing!

    • Cerberus says:

      God damn that’s funny! I can’t stop crying from laughing so much! Hahahahaha!!!!

      Baby, I’ll respond shortly. But I just can’t stop myself from laughing!

    • I first saw that somewhere around 1988-1991, on my first professional programming job. I guess it’s so old it’s new again.

  32. Oh, I missed answering an important question, yes. It is always OK to tease me. I may be too literal minded to notice. Or, I may notice and still respond as if I read it literally. But, that’s just what I do. I pretend English is an unambiguous and literal computer language.

    Of course, it isn’t. So, this often pisses people off. But, oh well. A mind is a terrible thing.

    • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

      That’s fine. I don’t mind Scotty. We all see things a little different, don’t we?

      I really do enjoy everything you do here Scotty. I want you, ECA, and Cerberus to know that.
      I do care for each one of you. You’re very special to me.♥ xoxox

      But that was a dirty trick. :-P

  33. The Expulsion Of Gods says:

    If I didn’t really need you, then I wouldn’t have asked you … Would I?

    But okay. I’m going to say something that I will never regret. Not ever!

    Thomas, I love you, always have, and I always will love you. God I love you. You are not my father either. You are a man that I wish to be with…

    …even if you are growing older, I don’t care! Do you really think that your age really bothers me?!

    Do you remember meeting my uncle? He has said that he thinks you’re a good man. Know what? I have his blessing to engage you!

    look, you’ve no idea how long and how much I’ve
    really considered this, but if I’m not wanted by you, than I guess I’ll go on without my love.

    It would seem that all I have left is rejection within my life, but I should have known better.

    My uncle has called, and wants me to get the police, and get him out. So, perhaps it’s okay. perhaps I don’t need any help in that situation, but I’m still offering you the chance to at least come and see me. Won’t you come? Please?

    • Cerberus says:

      Oh wow. I don’t know what to say. I’m very touched by your words of affection for me. I,…I did suspect you only had a little crush on me … I … I just had no idea that you felt that strongly for me.

      Okay, then. I’ll come and see you, but on the condition that we take this very slowly, okay? Because I don’t want this to be the mistake that we both may regret. And for some reason, I’ve had those feelings for you too.

      Damn it. Now I’m crying.

      Give me 2 days to prepare for this, okay? I have to make arrangements for my animals, gotta get my oldest son to stay at my place because he never minds doing that for his old dad. Anyway, just 2 days and I’ll be there. You have my word.

      See you then. And, well … I love you too. There, I said it.

  34. The Expulsion Of Gods says:

    Oh honey, you’ve made me so happy. ♥

    I’ll make you so happy too. You’ll never regret it. You’re the only man I’ve ever wanted, and I’ll be wanting for you.

    I love you

    • Cerberus says:

      EOG?

      If you’re still there, may I ask why you pretended to be a Christian? What was the point in that?

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        It was for bobby about his lying to others, and how doing that is just promoting distrust for him. But I haven’t seen him for a while … and so I just kept playing the part.

        I’m just very hopeful that nobody here is angry or have any ill will for my doing that.

        I’m sorry.

      • Cerberus says:

        None from me. I just didn’t know you were going a bit looney, or something of that nature.

        All is forgiven.

        Gotta go. See you real soon.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        Thank you sweety. I can’t wait to see you.
        bye bye ♥

        Oh, I do have a really big hug waiting just for you.

      • ECA says:

        I really dont care what you believe.. god or no god, or something in the middle.. I dont care if you think we are the remnants of a Cow pie, after it wondered by..
        Be willing to debate your side.. And a FEw of us may take devils advocate..
        And dont get me started on random thoughts..

        If there is a God, he is a comedian, and hasnt stopped laughing since he started watching us, or has become so Exasperated, and disgusted, that he turned the channel.

        If there is no god, then MANKIND will suffer for his OWN downfall..he has no one else to blame. As we are Mice being led by RATS..

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        ECA,

        –I really don’t care what you believe..god or no gods, or something in between.–

        I need to level with you, ECA.
        My mind craves for other opinions..opinions from intellectuals whom I find interesting, and I adore your mind. God, this is so hard for me to explain.

        I do this for myself to better establish my own opinion on things…this is why I crave discussions with, you, Scott, Cerberus and others. I can’t help myself. I also find it very stimulating with respect in playing the role of God/Lucifer’s advocate. This is what’s broadening my scope on things, educating my person by the interactions with beautifully coordinated and various interesting intellectual powerhouses here at this blog.

        Perhaps I’m a little confused about some issues, and perhaps I do pick a little too much, but you’ve no idea how much all of you are appreciated..repected…and loved by me.

        There was another man that was once here…and I still have no hatred for him…no grudge or malice for him…because he’s a good man with beautiful aspects and opinions to share…even if he lied at times…

        ..I really tried to reachout to him in an attempt to only befriend him…and to let him know that I care. But I got nothing but rejection for my efforts. And now…I miss him being here. But, he is very evangelical as even he would stick his fingers in his own ears and say, “la, la, la, la, la! I can’t hear you! La, la, la, la, la, la.”
        Perhaps he has realize his mistakes though. I do hope so.
        Just wanted bobby to know that I still care for him.

        Anyhoo, that’s just me in a nutshell.

        Well, I’m going with someone for a while. Ummm, someone’s taking me out to eat now. ♥ Gotta go. Love you guys.

      • EOG, Cerberus ♥ says:

        Hi Scott,

        Is ECA still around?

        ECA,
        I’d very much like to have a more serious discussion with you now regarding religion, or another topic if you’d like? I’ve been thinking about you, and very much enjoy reading what you have to say. You and Scott have excellent position\thoughts on many topics, and I’d love to play God’s advocate with the two of you again.
        Wouldn’t you like to do that again?

        Someone has made me promise not to play those games again with anyone here, k? Please? I really do enjoy you.

        I’m sorry that I’ve perhaps have made a mess of things here, but my mind sometimes is racing with thoughts, and, for a while there, being depressed and sleep deprived had nearly taken me on a downward spiral. But things are looking up now….or at least a little better.

        Anyway, if you want a little go at it I’ll be here at around 4 or 5, k?

        Hope to see you then
        Have a nice day sweety ♡

      • ECA says:

        A compromise in religion is NEVER to see what others believe..I think that is wrong.
        Iv looked at a few and think , that there isnt much difference.

        A person that calls themselves a Theologian, IMO, Should LIVE the religions he has studied..

        I believe that CHILDREN should not be CONDEMNED to being punished, and FORCED to be POUNDED over and over with the knowledge of 1 RELIGION.
        tHE life THE FAMILY lives SHOULD EXPRESS THE RELIGION they are living.
        I believe that ALL people should be experienced in MORE then 1 religion..more then 5 would be great..
        90% of ALL religions say 1 basic tenant..
        “JUST BE NICE TO EACH OTHER”

        The RELIGION of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam…ALL started with tribalism..and the gathering of them ALL into a single grouping. THE PROBLEMS, is getting the TRIBE out of the Commune and GETTING THE MAN out of MANKIND…Women must be PART of it..Life is to be SHARED..it cant be 1 sided with 1 person IN CHARGE..

        tHE IDEA THAT “im right, and EVERYONE else is WRONG” is not in the bible..

        the IDEA that an edited Book from Judaism(the old testament) hasnt been ADULTERATED over the years of Christianity…is Thoughtless(it has been changed over the years).
        I LOVe the idea that Christians, HATE or HATED Jews, many times in the past, but never understood that the BIBLE was from Jews..the BIBLE stories even mention that they were JEWISH..
        Where are the Christian stories?? BESIDES being thrown to the Lions..
        And if you REAd the history of Christians, you will see more Christians killing each other, over the simple fact of READING the bible and getting another understanding BESIDES the MAIN religious concepts..why we have over 20 Christian groups..

        I believe that RELIGIOn is a great way to look back into history. And look at the IDEALS that were being PUSHED..and gathered, and WHAT was causing the problems..READ it as a history book, and THINK about what is being said…AND WHY..
        Think about, TRIBALISM and MEN are RIGHT, women are CHATTEL..\
        And Odds are, If you are FEMALE, you would not like HOW the BIBLE WAS…as Women were Furniture. and Even after the NEW testament(1400′s) WERE STILL treated as Old shoes..

        FOR ALL of our religion, and understanding of the bible..
        If you werent…ANd where it was created/made..
        If you werent MALE and WHITE…you couldnt be christian..

        Got company, need to go..

  35. EOG, I wasn’t confused by your statement about religion. But, I do mean it when I say that it wouldn’t cost you my respect if you did suddenly get faith in some form or another.

    ECA, regarding God as a comedian, there’s always the classic Depeche Mode song Blasphemous Rumors.

    • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

      –EOG, I wasn’t confused by your statement about religion. But, I do mean it when I say that it wouldn’t cost you my respect if you did suddenly get faith in some form or another.–
      (Scott)

      Ooh god, I think that’s the nicest sentiments anyone has ever uttered to me. You truly are very wonderful person Scott. That really made my day.
      Thank you very much sweety. I needed that.

      At times I think that I need it, want it, and with it’s enchanted promise of love and a message from the savior is the calling….

      …but a calling from an empty thrown.

      For this savior is but a dream of false hopes from the hopeless, like that of a fallen tree beside the open waters of a brook…. lade to rest in its emptiness of death…

      …and no one to save it.

      And I grief for it. And I love it.

      For you Scott.

  36. The Expulsion Of Gods says:

    Okay, ECA.

    If you really want to debate me on that topic, that’s fine. But my only requirement is for you to define what I am. Simple enough. Right?

    I’m sorry for this, but if there is one thing that Cerberus has always enjoyed about me is my very willingness to argue with others. It’s who I am. And, well….. I guess I do get that side from my daddy. I mean, that’s all we ever had.

    Okay, then. Are you 2 willing to debate me while I’m waiting on someone? Hmmmm?

    • Cerberus says:

      I’ll bet I can define you – but that’s not a fare question for them, is it?

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        Oh ha, ha.
        You’re just a real funny guy, aren’t you?
        Don’t you have somewhere you need to be? Hmmmm?

        Somewhere you need to go? Hmmmm?

        Anyway, don’t say anything, k? If they re-read what I’ve said then it should be obvious to them, shouldn’t it?

        Humm…guess I’m being the little pick now. Oh well. The question still stands.

      • Cerberus says:

        You certainly like those little games, don’t you? How bout just being level with them for a change. You little teaser.

        Come on, it’s a necessity to forward the conversation.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        I want to see if they can define my person. It’s not that hard, is it? I’m sure they can do that. But if I need too, I’ll level with them. K?

        Now. Are you coming? I can’t wait to see you. B-)♥

      • Cerberus says:

        Damn girl! I’m getting ready – give me a little time, will ya?

        But, okay. Go for it.

        See you soon.
        And I’ve missed you too.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        I’ll be back a little later. My uncle’s here, and wants to talk to me, k?

        Later guys. Love ya!

    • What topic are we talking about exactly? Define what aspect of you. You’ve got 200,000 genes, 100,000,000,000 neurons, and 2-3,000,000,000,000,000 neural connections. Defining a human being is very difficult at best. Most of us can’t even truly define ourselves.

      Are you talking about your belief system? I thought your blog moniker being Expulsion of Gods said quite clearly that you’re an antitheist. Is that enough of a definition?

      Why are we defining you anyway? Doesn’t that seem a bit cruel? Aren’t you whatever you want to be and it’s up to you to define that? That concept is one of the problems with the word atheist. It is thrown at non-believers as an attempt to define people by what they DO NOT believe. It’s silly.

      I would call my belief system both antitheist and, if the word were not already coopted to mean something very different, scientist. What is the proper term for one who believes in science and scientific evidence rather than someone who actively practices the scientific method as part of their vocation or avocation?

      Ooh. How about evidentialist?

      • Cerberus says:

        Scott,

        She wants you and ECA to define her belief -if any – gods she has a belief in, as she is sometimes is very playful in discussions.

        This means that she really likes you 2, so just go along with it.

        And yes, she can be difficult sometimes, but that’s how she is.

      • Cerberus says:

        Pssst,

        I think you have already done so, just don’t tell her I said that.

      • Cerberus says:

        A.T.

        That’s a certain label that one should think about. And she also may hold anther belief: incase you’re interested.

        Re.read her earlier post she’d written for me. Remember the questions? That’s your clue.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        Aw! o_O

        I think that my three-headed friend has been talking too much!

        I know now the category that best explain you Cerberus. Let me see…
        …I need a cage, and some tape to keep that mouth shut, you stoolpigeon! ;-)

        I’m only kidding.
        Anti-theist, but I believe that perhaps there were others within another universe (long since dead) that may have been responsible for the creation of this universe.

        And I do have many (random) thoughts, ECA. And I’d never have the intent to insult you either.
        I may be a pick at times, but would never insult you, k? I will never do that to you, or Scott.

        I respect, admire and am in much need of your friendship to ever pull that stuff with you.

        I love you guys!

        Now. Ask me anything

      • Cerberus says:

        Sorry, EOG.

        But I just don’t think that you should do that to other people that are very forward with you, very nice to you, and care very much for you. I just don’t think you should mess with anyone’s feelings like that.

        Can you understand that?

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        Oh my.

        Cerberus,
        I was just being playful, just having a little fun….but at times I guess I really create a mess for myself. I really didn’t mean anything by it, but, for some reason I can’t stop myself from my accomplishing of what it is I don’t want.

        I like to argue, but want my friends too.

      • Cerberus says:

        If then, you really want your friends…,then do not do that.

        I have stressed this many times with you, and you still continue to do this. This is why many people get very frustrated with you. And the reason they no longer want to debate you.

        Will you please try and make a U-tern from those thoughts/feelings. You are a lot smarter than that.

        And a woman with one of the most beautiful and interesting minds I have ever known.
        You can do better…
        …but you have to try harder.
        Will you do that for me?

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        Honey,

        I promise I’ll try to work harder on that. I really didn’t mean to hurt anyone’s feelings.

        I guess you really do understand me. And I’m very grateful to have you Cerberus.

      • Cerberus says:

        Good.
        Now run-along and play.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        Ummm, excuse me?

        So I’m a meager little child to you? WTF?!

        Please don’t say you think of me that way? You don’t, do you?

      • Cerberus says:

        Ha, ha! Gotcha, didn’t i?

        I’d never think of you that way. But, it won’t stop me from fucken with you.

        Oh, yeah. I’m coming, and should arrive sometime in the afternoon.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        That was not nice Mr. :-P

        I guess I did deserved that one though.
        I think you’re in need of a good spanking though. Will you let me spank you? I promise it’ll be good. O:-)

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        So you’re coming tomorrow? Woohoo!! Wahoo!! Yip, yip, yippy!!

        But, now I’m filled with the excitement of your arrival, and won’t sleep. Darn it.

        I can’t wait! Yay!

      • Cerberus says:

        What happened today. Did everything go alright?

        A spanking? Would you want somebody to embarrass you again? But, yeah. I’d like that very much.

  37. The Expulsion Of Gods says:

    Oh, ummm…I forgot about that. Ummm, nooo, I don’t believe I want that again. So, I think I’ll have a little more discretion in my future responses. Ooops?

    Oh, ummm – everything went perfectly. My uncle helped me out a lot too. He said that I shouldn’t discuss it on the internet as it’s no one elses business, but I can reveal certain details in private, or in an email.

    He knows I’ll honor his request. He’s always been my real father. At least I think so.

    • Cerberus says:

      You really have come a long way. Haven’t you? And that’s really great, you know? I’m really happy about that.

      And I believe too that he’s been very good to you, and loves you very much.

      And, yes, he’s right about that.

      Well, I have to get some sleep if you want me to be there. Night, night, See you tomorrow.

      • The Expulsion Of Gods says:

        Nighty night my love.

        I’ll be waiting for you.

      • Descriptions of the resulting date are now being left to the reader’s imagination by request.

        Sorry folks. You’ll have to get your text porn elsewhere for today. Try the Bible.

  38. ECA, a friend just emailed me this today. It seems our practices in the ocean parallel many of the issues you’ve pointed out with farming.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/22/opinion/sunday/why-are-we-importing-our-own-fish.html

    • Cerberus says:

      Very interesting article, Scott.

      I had no idea that most of our seafood was imported. I mean, I figured some, but most?

      Nice work, ECA and Scott.
      Thanks

      • ECA says:

        TECHNOLOGY and BIG SHIPS have ruined sea life.
        Its not 1 ship running out and getting enough to fill a boat…ITS A WHOLE SHIP as big as a football field..
        It kills as much as it KEEPS..
        And the ship is feeding Billions..

        And we get back to over population.
        The GROUND needed to raise MEAT animals over the SEA where there is a FINITE amount..
        WE are Fishing MORE our of the sea then can be replaced..
        Estimates say that SOON, about 2020, there will no longer be enough TUNA, to replace their OWN NUMBERS,,,

      • Cerberus says:

        1. Thanks for doing that Scott.

        2. EOG is at work, even though she’s supposed to be on vacation, she has to first help with a trainee who’s taking her place for now because said trainee has little knowledge of said job duties. So, I suspect she should be here sometime later this evening. She said that she apologizes for that, but she had no choice in the matter as her job is very important to her.

        Aside from my previous ranting, I had no idea that they fish/catch in such large volumes. I am aware of this happening in the whaling industry, but had no clue that this is happening.

        Thanks, ECA.

      • No problem Cerberus. Most people consider the details of their sex lives to be a rather private thing.

        As for the fishing industry, it’s going to be a close race between whether we overfish the oceans to death or overacidify the oceans to death first. Estimates are in about the same time frame.

  39. EOG, Cerberus ♥ says:

    Oooh wow! I can hardly contain myself, and I really enjoyed that, ECA! Thank you.

    I am also in that same line of thinking with regards to the Christian standing on a no compromised policy of not excepting any other imput, whether that be of another faith, or with another of no faith. Wow! I really love your post!

    And, I think that your very much correct with your viewpoint regarding there being no real differences, with the minor exception of gods, or one of worship. However, there is so much love and hatred in the biblical texts that it can be very useful for both the vindictive deceiver, or from those with hearts filled with the tenderness of love.

    –I believe that children should not be condemned to being punished, and forced to be pounded over and over with the knowledge of 1 religion.–
    (ECA)

    But I could not except it, as I’ve found it to be more prominent with that of hatred for your fellow being. I once asked my mother how she could accept that books teachings on the grounds of it’s horrific testament towards woman, and I got a punch from my father for the audacity to even question it. Hmmmm – but I guess my parent’s did realize later that I was as stubborn as much as my father was. I know he hated me for my anti-theism, but I still miss him……and I still love him.
    This is so hard for me to write.

    And if I get permission from someone that is my love, I’ll tell you what happened to my father when he had abused me for many years.
    Although, I’m not sure if I have any strength\ability at this time to even explain it at the moment.

    And this is why I fell in love with him. Because he came to my need in my moment of distress, as I just couldn’t take it anymore.

    Well…I have to go now……this is just too painful for me now. Sorry everyone.

    Goodnight ECA and Scott.

    • Cerberus says:

      Look, if you really feel that you need to say it……then just say it. I will not hold you back. I know you’ve had this bottled up for a long time. I know the pain you feel, I know the grief, I know the anguish, I know what it is to be thrown out by the ones you love, and yet will never return that love to you because the only thing that ever fucking matters to them is themselves, not you, them, because if they truly love you, if they can see their own child before them that is indeed a part of them, and with an identity and looks of them, a child that is crying for them and is in need of their love but is fucking rejected by them! And why?! Why, must a mother and father whom is supposed to care, but only reject, or even eject that child for nothing more than being different by not excepting their fucking god! They can shove that godly book up their fucking ass!!!

      If then, they truly love their child then they should’ve never have had a problem with the beautiful woman that you are, and the identity that is you.

      If you really feel that you need this, then say it. But if you feel that you’re not ready for this yet, then take your time. That choice is yours.

      And I will always be your support….and always care and be there for you. No matter what.

      • EOG, Cerberus ♥ says:

        I, I know. And I think you are the most wonderful man that has ever entered my life. Thank you Tom.
        But i just don’t have the strength to say it yet. But I eventually will.

        I’m home if you’d like to come and stay for a while. I really need you.

      • Cerberus says:

        Comin over.

  40. ECA says:

    Anyone look up Food as a weapon yet??

    • Cerberus says:

      Hey, ECA .

      I just read an article on natural foods that gives a good report on the dangers within our food.

      I have no ability to put up a link. Sorry for that.

  41. No. Sorry. I got busy. I’d suggest that you post a relevant link or two instead of making it a homework assignment. It’s one thing to say look up blah, which bothers me a bit; it’s another to check back on whether we did as if we’ve failed some test.

  42. ECA says:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_power

    http://www.naturalnews.com/033343_food_weapons.html

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=206555367

    This is what happens to nations that become dependent ON others for food

    there are tons of other articles..

    • Cerberus says:

      Whoops! I just caught the link you’ve provided, ECA, and I believe you’ve got the correct link.

      “Natural news”

      My apologies. Guess that’s what I get for not getting enough sleep. Ha!

  43. Holy crap!!! That is horrifying ECA. And, I couldn’t help but notice this:

    In 1974, the idea of using food as a weapon was introduced in a 200-page report (http://wlym.com/text/NSSM200.htm) by politician Henry Kissinger.

    As if I didn’t think Kissinger was evil enough for suggesting that the U.S. acquire an interest in the middle east for purposes of being able to do the same with oil. Yes, he suggested that in 1973. No, it wasn’t oil for fun and profit. It was oil for world domination.

    His suggestion was supported by every single presidential administration from 1973 until W actually did it.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2003/03/thirty-year-itch

  44. ECA says:

    The only time the world will change, is when they find out that SNAILS create more oxygen then plants…
    LOL

  45. Hi ECA. I don’t get it.

    When snails create oxygen … ??!!?

    Is that a joke? Is it an expression like “when pigs fly”? Snails, like us, take in oxygen and breathe out CO2. It’s just what animals do.

    http://arnobrosi.tripod.com/snails/evo.html

  46. ECA says:

    yes its a joke, and it would be amazing..

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