Sam Harris and the Christian God(s)

I added the S since I maintain that Christianity with God/Yahweh, Jesus, The Holy Ghost (the three never tied together as a trinity in the Bible), Holy Mary Mother of God (really??!!?), Satan/Beelzebub/Lucifer, and a whole bunch of angels, saints, cherubim, seraphim, incubi, and succubi, is clearly polytheism. Satan, in particular, is so powerful that God seems unable to zap Him into oblivion, making him a god of equal power to Yahweh.

Anyway, on to Sam Harris’ great speech. Note the more subtle unspoken references to, at least, “In God We Trust” on our money (3:15), Book of Mormon (4:34), faith healing (4:37), Sister Act (4:44), and Monty Python (6:02).

Note also that Sam Harris points out that God is impotent or evil. I prefer the term omnimpotent since our laws of physics show no signs of occasional tampering by any deity. Therefore, for God to remain undetectable by science, as is his wont, he must remain completely and utterly impotent in every possible way with respect to any effect on the observable universe. Therefore, the correct term is omnimpotent. This is my own term that I am trying to define and spread as a meme. Feel free to use it with or without credit to me.

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15 Responses to Sam Harris and the Christian God(s)

  1. ECA says:

    The basic principle of what the IDEA of religion did/does(was created for) was very good, but they took over the BASIC concept of GROUPS helping each other. The idea of a democracy to govern groups..
    SHARE information, Share new stuff, ASK Each other about things..Gathering and sharing information.. HELPING each other to make things better..for Hunting, gathering, Farming..
    BUT, someone had to create 1 stupid thing, because NO ONE knew or understood..GOD DID IT..is not an answer.

    iV shown a few friends, to LOOk at a situation, and ASK if they CAUSED IT, or if they could of STOPPED something from happening..
    If you end up not involved(not your fault) then look at the situation and find a solution..WHO DID WHAT to make this happen.

    NOT saying that people are not idiots, and do things to themselves..

  2. ECA says:

    also,
    I find it funny that we look at religion only BACK to certain times, as if there wasnt ANYTHING before that..Sumerian was around LONG before many of them..and MANY of the stories in the religions are very similar to those before..

  3. Hi ECA,

    Sorry. We agree on a number of things; this issue is not one of them.

    1. Religion and democracy are diametrically opposed and antithetical to each other. The very concept of religion, especially the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religion, is all about top-down hierarchy and obedience to authority in the form of Priests, Imams, Rabbis, or just plain religious law. The first five books of the Old Testament, a.k.a. the Torah are actually called, The Law.

    2. While Sam Harris is opposed to all religion, as he states rather strongly in his book The End of Faith, this particular video is about the Christian sect of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religion, deliberately singular as always for me. So, to ignore the roots of religion when talking about one particular set of sub-sects, in this case known collectively as Christianity, is consistent with an analysis of Christianity.

    3. A large part of religion is about helping each other. But, let’s not forget that the biggest “help” is helping those members of your own group kill all the members of some other group. The Old Testament is probably the single best genocide instruction manual ever written. Consider, Deuteronomy 20:15-17:

    15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.
    16 Howbeit of the cities of these peoples, that the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth,
    17 but thou shalt utterly destroy them: the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee;

    4. You said, “The basic principle of what the IDEA of religion did/does(was created for) was very good, but they took over the BASIC concept of GROUPS helping each other. The idea of a democracy to govern groups..” I have to ask, what evidence, what on earth, makes you actually believe that religion was ever created for good, especially any sect of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religion. This religion is one of the biggest viral memes ever inflicted on humanity. Here’s a pretty good argument that Christianity was deliberately created by the Romans to encourage obedience to Cesar. Watch the video and tell me that you still think that Christianity was created with a purpose that “was very good” and had anything whatsoever to do with democracy.

    http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm

  4. ECA says:

    MS…
    Look at something for me.

    Think of small packs of people wondering around..(simular to the Am. Indians in many cases) 1-2 times a year they would meet up with others and trade. Then SOME idiot had to BE the head person of that 1 spot…He had RULES..
    Think of a control person that INSTIGATES things..
    Lead to people grouping MORE together for protection..
    My way or the high way…And anything that 1 person believed, was LAW…which became religion..

    Look at NOW..
    RELIGION leading BACK, to smaller groups.. more and more smaller groups.. its going backwards…
    MANY of those in the middle east are getting out, because of the severity of the religions.. THE NUTS controlling it.. and they dont see much difference between THEIR AND OURS.. we JUST are more LAX, in killing each other to make a point..as well as NOW, we can get salvation, by asking for it, on our death bed..(LMAO)

    People have 1 foible.. they WANT someone to explain things to them..they look for someone SMARTER(?) stronger(?) something they dont have…
    Democracy is about the same…we ARE SUPPOSED to SHARE knowledge and thoughts, and make the better decision.. having a LEADER on top, only gives us someone to blame..

  5. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    I could only just watch that video to the end. I don’t like listening to someone preach about something that is so bone stupid obvious==even when I agree with it. Only the quality of the visual media kept me watching. Just to dither:

    I don’t think a religion based on the sacrifice (and resurrection==SO WHERE IS THE SACRIFICE???) of just one person is a religion based on human sacrifice. Jebus wasn’t human in any real sense, being God at the same time. Ha, ha. OMG==what a load of gibberish. Makes no sense at all from start to finish and all points inbetween.

    God could easily be omnipotent. He made the universe as per his conception that was in place before time began and it is playing out exactly as he wishes it. God is powerful and all knowing and any deceitful criticism is only a human scale measurement of our own inadequacies. There is no evil in the world, only the failure of a limited consciousness where life and death by ego seems to be important or moral as an issue. God of course is outside this context/understanding. You don’t understand/agree with this?===blah, blah, blah. All gibberish.

    Saw some American Cardinal on …… some talk show …. he was a crafty, glib, seductive fellow. God being christ offer love and salvation to us all. His accepting of all people would have gotten him burned at the stake for most of Catholicisms history. “Selling the Faith.” I suppose it is better than buggering the kiddies…. except you can get over being buggered, too often getting religious sticks forever. Close quesiton as to which is worse????

    “If the religious could be reasonsed with, religion wouldn’t exist.” by Some guy, probably garbled by my memory.

    The devil made me do it.

    • I agree that sacrifice + resurrection != sacrifice. You added though that “Jebus wasn’t human in any real sense, being God at the same time.” I know you don’t really care, but I challenge you to find a single place in the Bible where it says that Jesus == God.

      “Selling the Faith.” I suppose it is better than buggering the kiddies…. except you can get over being buggered, too often getting religious sticks forever. Close quesiton as to which is worse????

      In my mind, but not actually literally, I’m ROFLMAO!!

      Would that make infecting someone with religion mental buggery?

  6. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    Hey you guys exchanged seminal ideas while I was ejaculating myself. ((Why the quick hoply short turn to phallic imagery?==I don’t know. It came to me in a vision. Must be the right thing to do?))

    ECA–you continue to marvel me with your unique combination of total irrelevancy while creating a pile of unconnected tangents. This time, you added a heavy dose of being wrong on just about every factual touch point you made. I can’t tell if you are getting better or worse at whatever your selected goal might be. Its like…. its like……. you are achieving your own omnimpotency of some kind?

    Lets see if you can come down to earth on any point at all?

    ECA: is the Catholic religion hierarchical in structure or not? And by hierarchical, I mean not like a democracy at all.

    GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=============>

    • Democracy can be hierarchical if the people in power are duly elected. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses! — Dennis the Constitutional Peasant

      The Catholic Church is totalitarian because the people have no vote in the hierarchy, not because it is hierarchical per se.

  7. ECA says:

    hey bo,
    Take a look yourself..
    HOW do the levels of the church look?
    since it got to Rome, its all TIERS of people talling everyone from the tOP to the bottom, what they can do..

    The design of OUR democracy was SUPPOSEd to be the reverse..
    ALL those bottom groups, telling those UP TOP, what needed to be done.. decisions in Chruch and Science, should be kept out of it.. 1 Fantastical, and one Factual..You shouldnt debate either without the correct understandings..

    My concept was the idea of small groups doing their best to Survive in the LONG AGO.. And how they would be acting, BEFORE religion started taking over..

    • Minor correction: The U.S. is not a democracy. We have no federal election. We have only statewide elections. We don’t vote for any national office. The state electoral college, for whom we do vote, is not bound to vote as we say. Nor is representation equal at the federal level. “One person, one vote” most assuredly does not describe our federation, which as an aside is also not a nation.

    • Cerberus says:

      ECA,
      You make some excellent points regarding religious corruption, as it is nothing but a monarchy of greed and deception.

      Scott,
      You have the correct position regarding our so-called “democracy,” as it only gives it’s people an eliusion of control while the very top pull all the strings. So, it too best describes a monarchy. But, I can still understand why the founders took their approach because the big churches had absolute control over the masses, and thus the vote.

      Washington extended an olive branch in setting his slaves free, but that was still no excuse for owning slaves for the duration of his business life as a wealthy plantation owner.

      If Washington had freed his slaves from the beginning, and had made rules within the constitution to reflect that business model for all establishments, then we as a nation would be a more free civilization.
      But, that is just not the case.

      Cerberus

  8. bobbo, the pragmatic existential evangelical anti-theist says:

    Sorry–not ignoring anyone. Was not receiving notification… I’ll try again.

    ECA==what tiers tells the tier above them what to do? WHAT TF are you thinking of? Want to have women priests? Go FY. You aren’t a Catholic. Want to have birth control? GO FY. You aren’t a Catholic.

    Scotty==Want to deny the Holy Trinity or communion or transubstantiation because it is not stated in the Bible? GO FY. You aren’t a Catholic and the Catholic Church is not for you. Our revealed truths are eternal including the fact that the Pope in Rome is God’s Representative on Earth.

    Thats what hierarchy means and what the Catholic Church is.

  9. Sarcasm bobbo? If so, try using a sarcasm sign. It doesn’t come across well in plain text.

    If not, here’s my reply for you or any lurkers who actually feel this way:

    I’m not allowed to criticize Catholicism because I wasn’t born Catholic? As my mother once said to my sister when she and I were about 15 and 13 respectively, “Not fuck me!! Fuck you!!!”

    I walk into a major Catholic church in Manhattan and see in bold letters in stone inlay all around the fucking church a detailed explanation of how the Jews killed Christ! As someone who was beaten up as a child for being Jewish, yes, I get to criticize the church that fostered antisemitism for generations.

    And, yes, I am also qualified to read a book, even if it is not the religion my family followed.

    If you have a real argument about the trinity, present it. Don’t get into anti-Semitic ad hominem attacks.

    Care to try again? Go for it. More of the same? FOAD!

  10. Cerberus says:

    I will always give credit to all ariginals. Hello, Mr Scott.

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